Training concepts for the older set

[hogarth]

It's awesome that your boy came out of the woodwork to "get your 6".
Can't wait to read that AAR. Lol
You guys are two clowns who do nothing for this forum.
Why don't you two guys rent a range and put together a class for the forum?
You associate with no one. You don't come to get togethers.
I'm not really sure why you try keeping a presence here other than your ego and directing people to your blogs.

What have you done for members here, personally? ZILCH

Interesting revisionist history there.....I was participating in this thread BEFORE Erwos, as I'm pretty confident I'm the only person here who has actually met and trained with Karl Rehn.

And not that it matters, but I've never actually met Erwos.

Someone already got banned claiming I do nothing for the members here. Sorry if I don't attend "get togethers". I have a life outside the virtual world of this forum. I've got a wife, 2 kids, a dog, and several bartenders who depend on me.

I haven't written an article for my blog in nearly a year, as that is not my life, either. I don't post every thought I have on this forum, as some do. Does everyone have to use this forum for the same purpose you do?

I rarely link to my blog even though there are articles there that would answer the questions of many here about concealed carry. Why? Because I don't want people to think that's why I'm here. I was a member here long before I had a blog. It was a review I wrote here that had instructors reach out to me to come to take their classes. The blog came much later. I link to the reviews (as the exception) because I figure people here might be interested. YOU may not be, but others are. I get PMs all the time asking for more details or questions about logistics for classes. Clearly SOME people are interested.

I'm not sure why you insist on being the gatekeeper of information here. Except that you have that which you accuse us of having in abundance: ego. Again with the big fish in small pond thing. The high school QB who can't accept that the world has moved on from that homecoming game in 1986.

To quote from Justified: "If you wake up in the morning and meet an a-hole, you just met an a-hole. If you meet a-holes all day, YOU'RE the a-hole." Sorry if you can't see the pattern the rest of us see so clearly.

 

[erwos]

I want to say it was hogarth's review of a Green Ops class that got me started on my own journey. People do read the AARs. (Short Barrel Shepherd was also a huge influence, it's too bad he stopped blogging.)

Look, just to steer this wreck back towards something productive: the JDC and Green Ops at NRA HQ evening classes are very, very low key. It's an hour or so of classroom instruction, followed by three hours of shooting. It's inside, you can sit down between relays if you need, and the instructor to student ratio is very good. They are great with shooters of all experience levels, and they are super encouraging and positive. There's no pressure to go faster than you want to, the round counts are very manageable (100-200, usually), and the gear requirements are minimal (and they'll lend you what you need if you're missing something, most of the time).

I guess I'm trying to say that I think the post-W&C classes that people are looking for already exist to some extent... they just need to be found.

 

[TI-tick]

I've assisted my friend who used to be the host of PD TV on a disabled person episode. It mostly concentrated on the wheelchair bound inside the home.

There are a lot of people out there with disabilities of one sort or the other and most you can't see. I'm of the opinion that working with these folks to help them get more proficient at what they want to accomplish regarding shooting, or self-defense, is a good thing and I think there is a market for it. Not every trainer is up for this and it would likely be one on one or small groups of trainees who are friends or so.

Age does not necessarily equate to disability. I've personally seen an elderly gent with a cane short step up to the pistol range with a briefcase containing two 1911's who delivered 14 shots on an orange sticker about 2" around at about 7 yards.

Not everyone, disabled or not can accomplish that. For example, someone with tremors, particularly stress induced or flared, would likely never be that accurate. But to get that person with tremors more accurate at center of mass would be a win.

Training to help folks get better at what they can do with what they have; I think there is a market for this.

 

[erwos]

There are a lot of people out there with disabilities of one sort or the other and most you can't see.

What I don't understand is why there's an implicit assumption that the trainers I listed off aren't wiling to work with people who have disabilities and physical limitations. That market is already being served, at least to some degree. People come into these classes and they sometimes have disabilities; the instructors work with them. If 1:1 instruction makes more sense, that can be arranged.

If more instructors want to get into that, great, but let's not pretend it's new and novel per se.

 

[TI-tick]

What I don't understand is why there's an implicit assumption that the trainers I listed off aren't wiling to work with people who have disabilities and physical limitations. That market is already being served, at least to some degree. People come into these classes and they sometimes have disabilities; the instructors work with them. If 1:1 instruction makes more sense, that can be arranged.

If more instructors want to get into that, great, but let's not pretend it's new and novel per se.

I did not mean to infer that the listed trainers are not willing to work with folks with disabilities.

What I do infer is that some trainers could be better trained on working with people with disabilities; for a win/win for both.

That market may be served "at least to some degree" but could be served better; per my observation anyhow.

Not quite the same but I'll add in females and minorities to mix it up a bit.

Hell, now that I think about it there is a niche market for training solo or in small groups. Maybe with a AI intake form...

Perhaps that's where Blaster is coming from.

IDK but I'll see if I can get with him for some one on one or so.

 

[hdatontodo]

If an OT was familiar with firearms, they would be good for training seniors.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

 

[hogarth]

In open enrollment classes I've taken, there have been a number of people with disabilities or just other issues that limited their participation or required accommodations or modifications to the POI. Among those were a VERY old gentleman who attended a Paul Howe class with me. Guy was probably 80. Had a 3 ring binder with the certificates from all the classes he'd attended, dating back to late 1970s at Gunsite. Guy suffered from terrible tremors. The instructors and we as students helped him as needed and cheered him on.

I took a Green Ops class that had a little person in it. I've seen photos of him in other classes, too, so I'm guessing he's a bit of a training junkie. That dude's not going to shoot through the top hole of a VTAC barricade, but the necessary accommodations were made and he did great. Better than most, in fact.

I attended an FPF Carbine class where one dude showed up with an M1A. No sling, had little idea on how to operate it, and it was clearly too heavy for him. Murphy loaned him a BCM, and he was good to go.

The misconception that these classes are commando schools that don't take into account student needs is, at least in my experience, unfounded. I think if someone has a very specific issue (say, a wheelchair), reaching out to the instructor ahead of time would be a wise move. But many of these instructors have been "adapting and overcoming" for so long, they have no issues making accommodations.

Might there be a market for dedicated classes for older/somewhat infirm/people with disabilities? I have no idea. Not a marketing or research guy. But as someone who works in that field (people with disabilitie), I think it would be pretty cool. If not, then they'll be taken care of pretty well in the existing classes.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

I have conducted a few classes for the MD Wear and Carry that were broken down into four-hour segments to work into the attendees schedule. I have also done classes for those who have disabilities. It is not for every instructor. Currently I am working on offering classes through the several gun clubs I belong to.

 

[sajidakh]

Most fun I've had in weeks. Need Blaster's responses.

 

[lazarus]

I personally wouldn't have been interested in the class occupying 4 days, but the format I did was definitely a lot to get through, and I could see people benefiting from it being broken up more.

In a perfect world, training wouldn't be a requirement, and instructors could focus on making their classes useful, accessible, and tailored to specific groups of people, rather than filling some arbitrary guidelines set by the state. I could have benefited much more from some meaningful range time instead of learning about the mechanical functions of a revolver, and how to safely store guns inthe home.

I can see 3hrs after work for 4 days and then 4hrs on the 5th. Takes a whole week, but you can do it in the evenings.

Or 4x4 that way.

Even if you aren't old. Heck, even for renewals, a 2x4hr class would be nicer than a one-day 8hr class. 4pm till 8pm or 5-9 makes for a long day if you are doing it after a day of work, but better than needing to take a day off work, or spending an entire weekend, or two saturday/sundays in a row.

What would be nicer is SCOTUS kicking training to the curb, or at least telling the states that 16hrs is NOT reasonable.

I still prefer ditching training, but IMHO, if it is small group instruction for live fire, there is no particularly good reason a decent and acceptable training class cannot be given in 4hrs total. And a renewal could easily be an hour.

Yes, I agree with the instructors who say "yes, but". A right. 587.4hrs of intensive training will make me a lot better than 1. No doubt. 0 is what it should be for a right. 4hrs can easily cover basic law in your state for defensive shootings and carry, safety, and a short live fire training to prove you aren't going to put a round through your foot or the person next to you. Anything more should be on the individual to seek out.

PS Yes, if there had been a good option at the time that focused a lot more on range time and instruction in shooting for 8-12hrs of my class, I would have gladly paid some more for it, plus BYOA. There might have been, but when I looked the small number that seemed like they might be, were booked for a couple of months and more like $400-600. I'd much rather spend that money, and time, at some point to seek out an advanced pistol training course. I don't need basic pistol training. I've been shooting enough years to be very confident in my basic skills, even under pressure. But something where I can do draws, positional fire, shooting from a vehicle, reloading under time/pressure, etc. would be beneficial.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I'm the reverse ! When the time finally comes , I'd like a 16hr marathon format . Seriously .

 

[Bob A]

I'm not looking at this as 16 hrs of training to satisfy MD's ridiculous regulation.

I'm looking to learn the stuff I really need to know, and to develop the skills and mindset needed to prevail if I actually have to draw my pistol to save my sorry butt. Further, there's a need to keep the skill set from deteriorating over time, which means some recurring training.

There's a lot more than I can get in a 3-4 hour class; besides which, the skills are better incorporated by repetition over time, rather than 16 hours back-to-back and call it done.

 

[hogarth]

From a Kyle Defoor scoped rifle class this weekend (not my photo). I spy a dude in a wheelchair.