The U.S. Army Is Developing a new 6.8-millimeter bullet.

[DavidA]

The Sig Fury will never fly. A loaded XM7 or whatever it is weighs 12 lbs loaded. It will be tested, evaluated and then it will be destined for Speacial Ops for specific requirements. The fastest way to get performance is to use either 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel.

I prefer Grendel for the reach out it can give you. The SPC dose not require a bolt change, the Grendel Does. But the Army has also adopted the 6mm ARC ( little brother of the 6.5 Grendel) for specific applications. So my guess is either 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel for infantry , light weight, low recoil. Familiarity with operating as identical to M4.

Of course this would be the most economical and feasible way to go with transference of parts from the M4. But that makes sense. Not sure that the upper level brass in DC are capable of that.


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[BFMIN]

I wonder when they'll reinvent the 7mm 08?

 

[MacGuns]

I wonder when they'll reinvent the 7mm 08?

7mm PRC

 

[King Chicken]

Considering world events the last few years and the increased potential of more armed conflict involving US forces…it makes me wonder if it’s the best time for a mass changeover. The transition may overload the logistics of doing so at such a time of uncertainty.

Of course…there’s no “best” time for it. Just wondering…that’s all.

The military took forever to switch from m16a4 to M4. I can't imagine switching calibers. Desk jockey girls in army had the M4 years ahead of Marine infantry. -_+ they also had the new SAWs years ahead. Idiots. I doubt other countries make those mistakes.

At least we have a new trans Navy spokesperson.

 

[smokey]

It already exists and is called the 6.5 Grendel.
The Grendel is an extremely efficient cartridge. It doesn't have .308 energy, but it has the range and is extremely low recoil. I'm glad it is finally gaining traction in the shooting community.
I'm not sure why it doesn't have the military's attention.

Yup. It would have made a lot of sense to just switch to the grendel... especially if they applied the sig casing technology to bump up case pressure. An 80,000 psi grendel cartridge would be badass.

 

[jrumann59]

5.56 is not going anywhere even if the XM7 does finally make it to full deployment. M4 will be used by soldiers parked far from the front lines. Not to mention as the Army Transitions the M4 will still be used by many units. Lets not forget the Air Force still use the M4/M16 rifle as well.

 

[DavidA]

Yup. It would have made a lot of sense to just switch to the grendel... especially if they applied the sig casing technology to bump up case pressure. An 80,000 psi grendel cartridge would be badass.

Yeah do the hybrid case for a Grendel , make a super bolt for it and you’ll be throwing 130 gr bullets at 2,800 fps or there about, from a 16” barrel . Using something like a 130 Berger Hybrid would give it 2,250 ft lbs at muzzle, Transonic at 1,175 yds. What a freak that bitch would be. All with manageable recoil in a relatively light package.


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[smdub]

Yeah do the hybrid case for a Grendel , make a super bolt for it and ...

Thats the limitation of the AR15, the bolt lug strength. We are already into special steels to get it to work with bigger case heads. I know there are some even more exotic steels possible but at what safety factor?

I think the hybrid case will eventually be applied to other cartridges. Will give a few calibers a boost in performance or a new lease on life.

6.8 Fury is partially about defeating body armor. Overmatch. I don't think the existing 6.5/6.8 AR15 cartridges get in done in that arena. The heavy bullets goinging slower are at a disadvantage.

 

[ezracer]

C'mon. The U.S. military needs to grow a f'ing pair. 30-06 BABY !!! Back to the future

 

[BFMIN]

A bit "nippy" for a milspec rifle & shooter.
Might be nice for a DMR though.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

Sounds like a .276 Pedersen/.30-06 redo. MacArthur won that one...don't know if there's anyone like that willing to make a decision anymore.

 

[RFBfromDE]

Lets not forget the Air Force still use the M4/M16 rifle as well.

Yeah, but we are talking about the military.

 

[K31]

Did they succeed in making the "bullet" lighter?

 

[308Scout]

Does this mean that all of our 5.56 platforms are no longer weapons of war and they can go back to being harmless varmint rifles??

Ammo Depot is on it.

Availability
.277 Fury: As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, .277 Fury ammunition may have been less widely available than .223 ammunition due to its relatively recent introduction.

In summary, the .277 Fury and .223 ammunition are distinct cartridges designed for different purposes.

The .277 Fury offers enhanced long-range performance, stopping power, and terminal ballistics, making it suitable for military and law enforcement applications.

On the other hand, .223 ammunition is well-suited for civilian use, varmint hunting, and target shooting, with a reputation for manageable recoil and accuracy within its effective range.

277 Fury | .277 SIG Fury | Ammunition Depot

Save time and purchase your .277 SIG Fury at Ammunition Depot! Our online inventory of discounted 277 Fury ammo for Sale is available for direct shipping.

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sdfg

 

[Growler215]

My understanding was that the military version of the .277 Sig Fury would use a (non-reloadable) composite case, and the already available, lower pressure civilian version uses a reloadable brass case.

With this dichotomy, and the fact that this is an AR10 sized round vs an AR15 sized round, it's not clear to me that the standard civilian desire to shoot what the military shoots will take hold in this case. Especially since the 80 ksi military round requires a much stronger action than current rifles have.

But I've been wrong before. . .

 

[smdub]

Especially since the 80 ksi military round requires a much stronger action than current rifles have.

The SAAMI spec is 80ksi so all rifles sold should be proof tested to that.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/277-Sig-Public-Introduction-Orig-2020-11-11.pdf

I agree that until we can get the hybrid ammo as civilians, adoption of the rifle will be very slow.

 

[jrumann59]

That is a lot of juice for a civilian rifle, the reason why the military is practicing with the brass cased ammo is the barrel life is expected to be low by most standards using the full power ammo, 10-15K range for a barrel.

 

[Sirex]

6.8? Don't be wusses. Increase it to 7.62.

 

[smdub]

6.8? Don't be wusses. Increase it to 7.62.

A 7.62 bullet is sub-optimal in a AR10/308 length cartridge today. With modern boat tail hgh BC bullet design, you can come up w/ an optimal design for a given OAL. 6.5CM is one such optimization. Modern long (=heavy) 7.62 bullets really need a WinMag length cartridge. Since the 6.8 Fury increased pressure, they could still put enough powder in to push a slightly larger bullet than 6.5CM.

50BMG suffers similarly. It was designed LONG ago w/ short bullets and old powder. Its why things like 460 Steyr and 416 Barrett can reach out so much farther. They use much longer high BC bullets and tend to have short fat cases.

As great as 308/7.62N is, the military should move on from it. We have come a long way in 100 years.

 

[DavidA]

For me at least, I have no idea why they chose 6.8. 6.8 SPC is a great cartridge , with limitations. Mainly energy at extended distance. Which the 6.5 Grendel partially addresses. Bothered cartridges push 1,760 ft lbs or do from a 16” barrel. With very limited increases in recoil and ammo carry weight. This allows crazy follow shots by standard trained infantry.

The 6.8 x 51, increases weight significantly bringing a rig with say an LPVO to 12 lbs. On top of that 308 size cartridges are about double M193. So 240 rounds M193 weighs 6.5 lbs where as 240 rounds M80 ball weighs 12.96 lbs so with increase in magazine weight it probably 7 lbs more plus there are volume capacity of where to store it in your gear.

Which makes perfect sense for a DMR weapon system in a squad. Find your biggest dude make him either your squad weapon or DMR. Equip everyone with a rifle in field dress that weighs 9.5 vs probably 14.5 lbs , and then give him 6.5 more pounds of ammo seems crazy. When your field packing every pound counts . You just added 13 lbs to a 240 round dress up.

So the SPC or Grendel would weigh in the 16.5 grams area or 7.65 lbs for a 240 bullet load out. Or approximately 1.0 lbs more with rifles of comparable weight . So 1 pound vs 13 pounds . Energy on target at muzzle is a (1250 vs 1,750) or 40% more which only gets better as distance increases. So 40% increase of energy on target for 1 more pound load out.

This sounds like a no brainer to me. What then is the purpose of the hybrid 6.8 x 51 cartridge. ? What am I missing. 13 lbs gives you about 3,000 fps from a 135 gr billet or right at 2,700 ft lbs. So over the Grendel it’s a (1750 vs 2,700) or a 54% increase in energy that cost 12 lbs more to carry.

Not sure if that is an effective use of resources. You could push a hybrid case on the Grendel, with an exotic materials bolt and approached 6.8 x51 kinetic energy.

Any hoot, I’m not feeling it.


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