The Gadget: an additional safety device for Glock pistols

[jessestone]

AFAIK it stops the trigger from traveling unless the user makes a concentrated effort to depress the center bar/pivot/hook thingy.

How you been mopar? Hope things are well.

I will disagree with you, the trigger safety stops the trigger from going back if pressure is applied to the sides of the trigger and then it is pulled back, a next to impossible feat. It doe not make that it requires a concentrated effort to pull the trigger, anything that touchs the trigger face can make it go boom....jus like a revolver.

 

[jessestone]

You must have ape hands if you can keep your thumb on the striker plate of an M&P while holstering, I can't get my thumb over the beavertail.

But I can re-holster with my finger off the trigger...

Yes, I am somewhat a freak of nature in size....6'7" and 290lbs with hands to match lol

 

[mopar92]

Yes, I am somewhat a freak of nature in size....6'7" and 290lbs with hands to match lol

Yes yes you are.

 

[Threeband]

Lol.. Old school.. NRA only has three major handling safety.


...]

When I was a kid we used to get these lists of Ten Rules For Safe Gun Handling


... and keeping your finger off the trigger was not one of them, as I recall.

Number 1 was, "Remove thy match from thy Serpentine ere thou handlest thy bandoleer." which was a corallary to, "Christian, thou knowest thou carriest Powder about thee. Desire them that carry fire to keep a distance from thee."

Jeff Cooper really improved things.

 

[mopar92]

How you been mopar? Hope things are well.

I will disagree with you, the trigger safety stops the trigger from going back if pressure is applied to the sides of the trigger and then it is pulled back, a next to impossible feat. It doe not make that it requires a concentrated effort to pull the trigger, anything that touch the trigger face can make it go boom....jus like a revolver.

Pretty much what I was saying ya have to depress that to fire. It requires an intentional press. Or a negligent holstering non optically assisted or tactiley assisted.

I'll shoot ya a PM in a second.

 

[Threeband]

Nah, I agree with jessestone. The Glock trigger will prevent an ND from something brushing along the side of the trigger, but may not prevent an ND from a shirttail or jacket cord or small furry creature that really gets up against the trigger face (perhaps while the pistol is bouncing around in someone's purse or underwear). An old-school DA revolver is more secure from such an ND, because not only is trigger travel further, but pull weight is greater.

Now that little pivoting bottom half on the M&P trigger, that is a joke.

 

[jessestone]

Pretty much what I was saying ya have to depress that to fire. It requires an intentional press. Or a negligent holstering non optically assisted or tactiley assisted.

I'll shoot ya a PM in a second.

Direct brother

 

[Mark75H]

An old-school DA revolver is more secure from such an ND, because not only is trigger travel further, but pull weight is greater.

That can always be resolved by using the Glock "New York" trigger spring

 

[Threeband]

That can always be resolved by using the Glock "New York" trigger spring

I don't worry about it. I use good holsters for my M&Ps. I wouldn't be comfortable Mexican carrying one though. I have Mexican carried S&W revolvers, though.

 

[Traveler]

Noooooo....read your original post I quoted...

"You are busy pushing on a third party add-on, instead of focusing on trigger discipline. Keeping your booger hook off the trigger is the first rule. There is no substitute."

I just said I could do 2 things at the same time, which was keep my thumb on a slide/hammer and still keep my finger clear.....been doing it for years, my job requires you multi-task.

Also by "grasping" your qoute of NRA rules, we should not carry a loaded firearm in a holster....really? Somebody needs a snickers lol

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Threeband
You merely establish the habit of resting your thumb on the slide as you reholster.
Go re-read my post.

People are really making a big deal out of this, apparently without grasping how it's used.


Apparently you don't grasp firearm safety basics. Try an NRA course.

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use."

Buy one if you must. And don't use your hair dryer in the shower. Enjoy.

I will just read the owners manual, and get proper training.

 

[Traveler]

I've taken lots of courses.

You really don't grasp the concept of how this works, do you?

Aroint thee, troll.

(You forgot #4, btw.)

I get that a competent shooter does not need it. Get some training, and leave the training wheels and gadgets for the little kids.

 

[jessestone]

Buy one if you must. And don't use your hair dryer in the shower. Enjoy.

I will just read the owners manual, and get proper training.

Don't know what your issue is, since I have shown you no disrespect. The only thing I can think is that you and your ego must have a hard time fitting in the same room.

All I have done is point out some real world observations from 30+ years of shooting and training others.....have fun reading your manual and getting you apparent internet training......

 

[Traveler]

Don't know what your issue is, since I have shown you no disrespect. The only thing I can think is that you and your ego must have a hard time fitting in the same room.

All I have done is point out some real world observations from 30+ years of shooting and training others.....have fun reading your manual and getting you apparent internet training......

In case you forgot your snark:

Also by "grasping" your qoute of NRA rules, we should not carry a loaded firearm in a holster....really? Somebody needs a snickers lol

You chose to pick a personal issue, now you cry foul? If you don't want feedback, don't quote my posts.

I am an NRA instructor on pistol, rifle, and shotgun. I have trained many adults and Boy Scouts on the safe handling of firearms. They don't need the gadget either. They need to know how to handle firearms properly. This product is a crutch for the people that are either lazy or incompetent in my opinion. If that offends you, feel free to get counseling for your hurt feelings.

 

[jessestone]

You chose to pick a personal issue, now you cry foul? If you don't want feedback, don't quote my posts.

I am an NRA instructor on pistol, rifle, and shotgun. I have trained many adults and Boy Scouts on the safe handling of firearms. They don't need the gadget either. They need to know how to handle firearms properly. This product is a crutch for the people that are either lazy or incompetent in my opinion. If that offends you, feel free to get counseling for your hurt feelings.

Okay, it's your story relive as you want to, but check a few post's prior to the one you quoted. Also bragging about NRA pistol/rifle instructor certifications is kinda like bragging you became a gunsmith via a online school (yes I do have NRA instructor ratings amoung others. The one day instructor ratings is a area where the NRA really dropped the ball). Dont need counseling, but I don't roll and show my belly either to someone with limted experience.

Here is one piece of advice "never let your education interfere with your ability to learn" You might find your world expand.

Later.

 

[mopar92]

Okay, it's your story relive as you want to. Also bragging about NRA pistol/rifle instructor certifications is kinda like bragging you became a gunsmith via a online school (yes I do have NRA instructor ratings amoung others. The one day instructor ratings is a area where the NRA really dropped the ball). Dont need counseling, but I don't roll and show my belly either to someone with limted experience.

Here is one piece of advice "never let your education interfere with your ability to learn" You might find your world expand.

Later.

As an experienced shooter let me say this.
My opinions where formed by my experience. My experience is limited. I'm only 23.
I looked at this from my "mission envelope" a CCW'er who isn't chasing, detaining or conducting raids on suspects. Jessestones' s is. In his experience he would find a use in this Gadget and may be tempted to try one. I can't comment on his usage as its outside of my experience. I still maintain my issues but if my envelope ever crosses with Jessestone's I may make the same choice he has made.
It's info I'll probably never use but remember also. What you know can't kill you, what you don't can.

 

[Threeband]

Reading Is Fundamental.

Pro.14:7

 

[jessestone]

As an experienced shooter let me say this.
My opinions where formed by my experience. My experience is limited. I'm only 23.
I looked at this from my "mission envelope" a CCW'er who isn't chasing, detaining or conducting raids on suspects. Jessestones' s is. In his experience he would find a use in this Gadget and may be tempted to try one. I can't comment on his usage as its outside of my experience. I still maintain my issues but if my envelope ever crosses with Jessestone's I may make the same choice he has made.
It's info I'll probably never use but remember also. What you know can't kill you, what you don't can.

Well put Mopar.....While I do not think this particular device is something I would ever use, I am willing to look at it (I do have to side with roaddawg about the swinging backplate). The concept on which the "gadget" is based is sound and was in use for years when revolvers/pistols had hammers ( I know back in the day). People are commenting its a shooters crutch and all holstering discharges are ND's. Well as in my first post on this topic I had a fairly new Safariland ALS/SLS duty holster fail. A piece broke that could have caused a AD. Where the holster broke was not readily visible or apparent. I also know of numerous other holster failures....does that mean we need the "gadget", I don't know.

 

[RoadDawg]

Well put Mopar.....While I do not think this particular device is something I would ever use, I am willing to look at it (I do have to side with roaddawg about the swinging backplate). The concept on which the "gadget" is based is sound and was in use for years when revolvers/pistols had hammers ( I know back in the day). People are commenting its a shooters crutch and all holstering discharges are ND's. Well as in my first post on this topic I had a fairly new Safariland ALS/SLS duty holster fail. A piece broke that could have caused a AD. Where the holster broke was not readily visible or apparent. I also know of numerous other holster failures....does that mean we need the "gadget", I don't know.

I think it simply means we must train to look for problems and be vigilant as we take caution while handling firearms. Not give our sense of responsibility over to some gadget that purports to relieve us of it.

 

[mopar92]

Unfortunately for the inventor my mind is made up.

Here is a list of my "bitches".

1. Training (that is proper training) negates the existence of this product. The firearm functions as designed very well without it.

2. If the target market is having difficulty properly reholstering, adding an additional step is the wrong way to go. Imagine someone that can't start a car. Turn key, go no problems for most. Then put them in a manual where now it is push clutch, turn key go, and shift manually. Adding steps is not a good way to address bad training habits.

3. One thing striker fired and DAO (mainly shrouded or sealed hammers) offer is a sealed sytem. That is a system that for the most part will function without negative outside interference. They will fire with the rear of the slide/frame blocked allowing contact shot (s) in a CQB situation. This gadget eliminates that as pressing the rear of the slide prevents the striker from traveling and operating properly.

4. To continue the above "SouthNarc" states that of the few (can't remember the exact number) failure to fires none where caused by the gadget but instead by the slide and barrel being out of battery. You would be hard pressed to return the slide to battery given the decreased surface area available for manipulation and the fact that improper placement of the thumb/chest/small Vietnamese child/table/leg/neighbors dog would stop the striker from moving.

In short, this is NOT a product I would buy, recommend, recieve, evaluate, endorse, in any manner whatsoever.

To use a colloquialism, I wouldn't piss on it to put out the fire.

ETA This is also a liability for the fact it unseals the striker system in which a foreign object can enter the inner workings of the firearm and prevent the striker from moving in its intended and designed path.

Yo Jessetone since you're here take a gander at this.

Also did ya get my PM?

 

[Threeband]

..., adding an additional step is the wrong way to go...

You are not "adding an additional step". Your thumb has to be somewhere.

Even without this thing, lots of people rest their thumb on the back of the slide as they reholster.

....way before striker fired pistols we had things called revolvers, S&W 3rd geherations pistols and the 92F.....we holstered with a thumb on the hammer/slide and was still able to concentrate on trigger discipline.

...

... Pat Goodale does rest his thumb on the slide of his Glock 19 in exactly that way, and he encourages his students to do the same thing...

I never quite got the reason Pat encouraged that practice. I shoot an M&P, and the beavertail on my gun makes Pat's "thumb on the slide" thing impossible, so I never adopted the practice. Perhaps Pat sees it as providing a little extra certainty in the reholstering, I don't know. No harm in it that I can see.



...

You have a big list of valid objections, but "adding an additional step" is not one, as I see it.

People often think that they strengthen an argument by adding more points, like 7 objections is better than 2.
In my opinion, you can actually weaken any argument if you clutter it up with irrelevant or invalid points.

At this point, I'm not even talking about guns or gadgets, cabbages or kings. Just a general point about a legitimate argument. (If you have no argument, then yes, make lots of noise and throw lots of dirt and leaves in the air.)


For about the FIFTH time: I am not advocating this thing. I do not shoot a Glock. I am happy with my M&Ps, and am not skeered of them.