TAVOR- a quick review

[CrawfishStu]

I also went with the Lucid red dot with riser and put an AAC Breakout on it. I know the DD climb mitigation muzzle device worked wonders on my ACR, but I really wanted a can mount on this.

 

[SCARCQB]

Are you running a forward vert grip on the AUG and not the Tavor? I found several people that thought the Tavor was awkward before I put the vert grip on it using this.

http://www.bullpuparmory.com/product_p/iwi-tsrail.htm

I actually shoot them the same way. Israeli style. most of the time, I dont use the vertical grip on the AUG.
in terms of size,The AUG is also more compact, with factory optics, it will fit a tennis raquet case. An underfolder AKM, FN PS90, 10" AR SBR all fit in the same case. The Tavor is short, but chunky and has a taller profile.

The Tavor will also feed reliably from a BetaC mag. I have run about 200 rounds on mine from a Cmag with no issues.

 

[erwos]

Actually, my pet theory would be that his AUG has a better trigger due to after-market upgrades. A good trigger can distract from other flaws.

FWIW, I think that once Geisselle releases a new trigger for the Tavor, it'd be my hands-down rifle of choice. The Tavor's ergos feel SO much better than my AUG A3 NATO's.

That said, I do think the AUG's folding VFG does give you a slightly better ability to shoot from an improvised supported position than the Tavor. I notice it a lot when shooting from sandbags.

 

[huesmann]

Improved ergos or not, it still feels pretty heavy.

 

[CrawfishStu]

Agreed. It's a heavy pig. The tall optic seems to need some getting used to for most people. The super tall overall profile is a minus.

As far as triggers go, the only AUG I have shot more than a few shots through had a factory trigger. I did the trigger spring mod to mine. It cut the pull weight by half. Several places have trigger upgrades in the mix.

AUG vs Tavor......I want both. I would have bought an AUG that took AR mags.

 

[SCARCQB]

I like the original AUG mags better than AR mags. The ones made by MSAR in particular are very well made. However , do not slam AUG mags into the magwell. The round tends to jump out once in a while.

 

[Ganegrei]

I like the original AUG mags better than AR mags. The ones made by MSAR in particular are very well made. However , do not slam AUG mags into the magwell. The round tends to jump out once in a while.

Funny, I had the exact opposite experience. I found the MSAR mags to be junk. I dont think I ever slammed one into the magwell, but they were always double feeding.

 

[SCARCQB]

The tall height over bore on Tavor rifles at around 4 inches is indeed very tall. An AUG with factory optics is about 2.6". Similar to an AR. So similar BZO will work with the AUG.
On the Tavor. A 25 yard zero will not work. Zero at 25 and shoot about 10" high at 100 and intersect again at 525. Tavor rifles IMHO should be zeroed at 75 yards to for an envelope of 0-350 yards with minimal hold over

I have also been a bit more successful in getting better accuracy from the Tavor. Removing the add on trigger spring has resulted in a better trigger pull. A 6x scope and good brass cased ammo has resulted in a .85-1.1 " group at 100 yards.

I have also noticed a bit more muzzle flip on the Tavor as compared to the AUG , I'll be upgrading mine with an AAC 51t compensator / FH.

Initially, my Tavor choked on Tula ammo. Not anymore. I really do think that these guns require at least 300 rounds to break them in properly. After that, things tend to run better.

 

[SCARCQB]

Funny, I had the exact opposite experience. I found the MSAR mags to be junk. I dont think I ever slammed one into the magwell, but they were always double feeding.

You can always sell them to me for a discounted price.

I have the first gen MSAR mags. Maybe qualify went downhill. But the ones that I have function very well

 

[Ganegrei]

You can always sell them to me for a discounted price.

I have the first gen MSAR mags. Maybe qualify went downhill. But the ones that I have function very well

Sorry, sold them and the MSAR itself to buy the Tavor.

Also, what is an "AAC 51t compensator / FH?" I also noticed the muzzle flip.

 

[SCARCQB]

It is basically an Aac suppressor adapter that has two stages. The first one is a compensator followed by a vortex flash hider. It also is better for mounting the m42 k suppressor. The compensator part prevents the adapter from spreading and helps out the blast baffles to reduce wear on the can. It is also suppose to reduce the muzzle flip substantially.

 

[mazinger]

I wish that the top rail was raised a tad higher on Tavors. I hope the aftermarket sees a need for this eventually.

As far as the trigger goes, I took apart the entire trigger pack & gave it a trigger job along with the spring removal. It's got some heavy springs in there & grainy contact surfaces. I'm quite happy with the result, but I haven't shot it with the mod yet.

 

[huesmann]

Huh? Higher?

 

[CrawfishStu]

Huh? Higher?

I would think to facilitate the mounting of optics with no riser mount.

 

[huesmann]

But anything "aftermarket" is going to be essentially a riser mount, isn't it?

 

[erwos]

He could always send it to PJ for the AUG CQC treatment, which would net him a somewhat higher rail (.415" higher). Mind you, this is a bit of a mixed blessing when it comes to running BUIS.

 

[SCARCQB]

A little update on the Tavor.

At this point, i probably have around 1k rounds through the 16" Tavor. The more i shoot it, the more reliable it got. its been digesting a steady supply of mostly cheap WPA steel cased ammo. thats the only thing availble to shoot nowadays that is affordable.

To simulate a high round count without burning up too much ammo, ive been running it suppressed. It seems to get overgased with hot 5.56 ammo and increases reliability with the cheap and anemic WWB or Russian steel cased blasting ammo.

I borrowed the magnifier from my Colt and will try to determine accuracy with good brass cased ammo this weekend. Ill post a report .

The trigger also feels so much nicer. I took out the extra spring minths ago and i have yet to encounter a problem with reset. The trigger is now a consistent 6.5 lbs, no creep, the take up is just a little bit long.. But its a military trigger. That is to be expected.

Shooting it suppressed is a treat. As bullpups tend to be noisier compared to other carbines. As with all suppressed guns, gas in your face is an issue. Its not bad as long as you dont shoot it from the weak side. You will look like a WW1 fighter pilot after a long mission. Soot all over. Its is also a pain in the behind to clean after firing it suppressed. Darn gun blows gas all over the insides of the plastic stock. I wish IMI has equipped the little bullpup with an adjustable gas system. Then it would be perfect.

The TAR is currently equiped with an old school Gen1 bushnell holosight, an older 3x aimpoint magnifier in a LaRue FTS mount. Im still saving for a better sight( ACOG or depending upon tax refund, an Elcan DR). The HDS co- witness with the Tavors Irons at 1/3 UPPER setting. it works, just takes some time to get used to.

The weight of the suppressor balances the gun at the pistol grip instead of the rear. It feels like an AUG with the extra weight on. Still a very fast pointing carbine with minimal over swing when engaging targets side to side, even with a heavy can. Overall lenght of the setup is 31.75". This is very short considering that it has a 16" barrel.. It is the same lenght as my 7.5" AR SBR with an AAC m42k can, stock extended. The Tavor is also more reliable than SBRs while delivering optimized ballistic performance in a compact package. You also will not get the horrendous muzzle blast in typical sbrs.

It is also quieter suppressed than the AUG or FS2000. But gets dirtier inside,As the gas port is actually inside the stock. the ergonomics of the Tavor also makes it easy to hold in ready position with a can mounted. the suppressor also mitigated recoil and muzzle flip substantially.

Just an observation, Tavors do require a break in period.i had issues with the first 300 rounds, most were ftf with anemic wwb and wolf ammo. Now, nearing the 1k count, it has been very reliable and i would now trust it with a shtf/ HD role.

 

[LineofSight]

SCAR, you considered running a vertical grip underneath the handguard? I've seen 2 companies offer an aftermarket handguard with rail which seem to be a suitable option. I use vertical grips on all my ARs and it feels awkward not having them standard.

 

[SCARCQB]

No Vfg for the Tavor. I'm keeping the original grip. a VFG will ruin the ergo for the Israeli Hold. That makes for a very stable platform when shooting unsupported.

I don't even use the VFG on the AUG. I use the same stance. 6 points of contact to cradle the gun in place. It's also Pita to find a case that will fit it with the VFG attached.

I do run the Vfgs on ARs and the Benelli M4

 

[LineofSight]

No Vfg for the Tavor. I'm keeping the original grip. a VFG will ruin the ergo for the Israeli Hold. That makes for a very stable platform when shooting unsupported.

I don't even use the VFG on the AUG. I use the same stance. 6 points of contact to cradle the gun in place. It's also Pita to find a case that will fit it with the VFG attached.

I do run the Vfgs on ARs and the Benelli M4

Ok good to know. Thanks for input. I saw the Larue Tac covert case which looked great for the Tavor.