So Where's the Beef?

[Boondock Saint]

The drama llama is strong. Ugh.

 

[Aventus]

I’ve been trying to understand Patriot Picket for some time. So far, it’s clear that PP can be a valuable instrument in the 2A fight and for the MDS community. It also seems as if PP can be one of the MDS chair legs but that’s just me.

My biggest takeaway is how often PP discussions turn into ugly drama. Drama pushes away the most productive and creative people and attracts problems like flies to garbage. Yet, Patriot Picket discussions degenerate into pushing each other’s buttons like Trump on twitter. I understand Trumps reasons for doing it but doing it here achieves nothing and everyone loses!

If everyone is part of the program, great, help each other in a productive and inspiring manner. If you’re not, that’s ok too but you should be respectful and back off. For the Patriot Picket folks who are out there, in the streets doing it, thanks for putting your butts on the line! However, do yourselves a big favor and avoid the garbage in here!

I know my opinion doesn’t mean diddly, but I’m sure others feel the same. I also know most people won’t invest their money, time or ideas for drama. Just my 2 pennies. Peace!

 

[Rack&Roll]

Aventus: Thank you! We have historically issued invitations, so we have always found it puzzling to have a small group of people (with apparent repressed anger issues ) focus on our "volunteer program".

For the record, Serial Complainer Zzzz_man was unknown to us when he first dropped into a Patriot Picket organizing thread in April, 2017.

We were issuing invitations to join an out-of-town event, and he issued insults at us from our of Left Field, out of blue. Who the heck is this ZZZ guy?

In the link below the Z man insults me and the Patriot Picket in post 131, and I APOLOGIZE TO HIM in the very next post as a gesture of patience and conciliation.

But he kept the insults coming. (Posts 157, 165, 172, etc). Again, who is this ZZZ guy, and why is he so insulting to people he has no relationship with? We were issuing invitations, not demands.

That's not the point. We, as conservatives, should be above this type of behavior. I'm sick of seeing of Trump's supporters use MDS to incite violence against the opposition almost as much as I am of seeing anyone who doesn't support their agenda accused of being a liberal.

Old, fat white guys in improvised body armor, open-carrying and in close proximity to both leftist radicals and the POTUS. LOL Yeah, this is just the kind of thing we want to promote on MDS.

If you missed the point of this project, that is my fault and I apologize.

We are not taking a stand on behalf of any politician. We are taking a stand on behalf of Free Speech which is now regularly under attack.

Way before Donald Trump came on the scene declaring his wish to run for president, we were all experiencing suppression by way of political correctness. Leftists and media have ganged up on people who wanted to tell The Truth.

However, that supression has now moved to out-right violence-- to prevent people from expressing ideas the Left and the Media do not agree with.

As Second Amendment activists, we are going to Harrisburg where we expect to face off against the media and our opponents with two unwavering messages: "The Second Amendment protects the First", and "Free Speech By Any Means Necessary!"

Read all the posts yourself if you like, but isn't a year and a half of complaining about an effort--that he will never join--overdoing it with the complaints?

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=209410&highlight=harrisburg+patriots&page=7

To this day I ask, who is Zzzz_man, and why is he angry without end?

 

[Stoveman]

I tend to agree with you but it's stayed open so far. Maybe this will be precedent for any other complaint threads, didn't like the pig roast? Start a thread and let those who didn't attend bitch about it. Think the Hooligan shoots are exclusionary? Start a thread and whine some more. It will be like Festivus but with absentee ballots.


My prediction, and it's spot on through three pages, is that those with a major beef will be the ones who have never participated.

Spot on through nine pages...

 

[protegeV]

Spot on through nine pages...

This is only page 5 for those of us with the old school settings

 

[aray]

$4000.00?

Quite the “hobby” Rack

Isn’t a hobby something you do because you love it?

And not for profit?

Spot on Zzzzman!

R&R was very clear, from early on, that any excess was to be used as seed corn for a legal defense fund for the future, and to say otherwise is demonstrably false, and easily so. No one who got their checkbook out and contributed (myself included) regrets parting with our hard-earned money for a cause greater than ourselves. Unlike the government these funds are not forcibly taxed, but voluntarily donated. Consequently the disposition of these funds is between the givers, and the recipient. No one else gets a say.

 

[welder516]

That PA thread is so funny and fairly tame , but to be honest this one is not too bad either (Yet)


We all should admit life is too short for the drama , is it possible everyone has a point . Or can some of the criticism on boths side be right ?

 

[ironpony]

Did anyone find the beef?

 

[swinokur]

R&R was very clear, from early on, that any excess was to be used as seed corn for a legal defense fund for the future, and to say otherwise is demonstrably false, and easily so. No one who got their checkbook out and contributed (myself included) regrets parting with our hard-earned money for a cause greater than ourselves. Unlike the government these funds are not forcibly taxed, but voluntarily donated. Consequently the disposition of these funds is between the givers, and the recipient. No one else gets a say.

I added my sarcasm emoticon to my post. My point was if people think it’s just a hobby, they’ve been very generous and see the serious implications of the situation/.

Calling it a hobby is just ignorant and demeaning to many of us who see the value in the methods and grass roots origin of the PP

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Opinions are like rectal apertures. Everyone has one.

Seems like some have decided to use it as an alternative form of communication.

Fine by me

 

[POP57]

Did anyone find the beef?

Apparently it's not at White Castle. At least that's what I've been told.

 

[Rack&Roll]

The greatest service this thread can provide is to continue as the Official Patriot Picket Complaint thread where people can post their issues.

What is really tiresome is the same serial complainers posting the SAME complaints 10 to 12 times all across unrelated threads, where they are derailing them.

So, complainers delight thyself here and know that your gripes are officiallly recorded without having to repeat them ad nauseam elsewhere.

Complainers, this is home!

 

[welder516]

Wendy's done the where's the beef thing , when I was a young guy it was one of the funniest commercials in that time .

 

[JPG]

PP getting ready for a road trip and picking up MDS members.

 

[outrider58]

This thread should be elsewhere.

Where pre tell?

Being old, (somewhat less)fat and powerless to defend myself, and truly revolted by the nature of politics in this state, I go to PP events in order to show the face of opposition to the GA, to support freedoms in which I believe, to answer such questions as may be put to me, to learn to deal with irrational opprobrium, and to personally annoy our elected representatives.

You may ask whether it does any good, or in fact harms the causes which we support.

Maintaining a genteel aspect and humbly begging our representatives to at least consider the words in their oath of office has had little effect. Maintaining a public presence, pointing out major fallacies in their poorly-crafted legislation, and being able to draw on those here on this site who wish to become at least somewhat active in regaining that which has been taken from us, has at least marginally improved our situation relative to what the GA would like to do to infringe on our freedoms.

It should be noted that Rack and Stoveman have developed personal relationships with some of our delegates and senators, which has aided in moving at least some of our agenda forward.

There's only so much that can be done. I send money to select politicians, and organisations like NRA, SAF, GOA and Judicial Watch. It seems worthwhile to put a human face forward, to challenge the degraded status quo, and generally let people know that they are not alone in their frustration with the antics of theatrical politicians.

Not everyone who attends these PP events has the same reasons or motivations, but we all support the same ideals. I can't say I agree with every aspect of what goes down, but I strongly feel that something has to be done. So I do this. I also support MSI, both financially and in person at the occasional gun show.

Some of what we do really bothers people. Thankfully, most of the people it bothers do many things which bother me, so turnabout is more than fair.

At the very least, I make a visible public stand for what I believe in: personal freedom, liberty and justice for all.



I should point out that some of the PP group are not old, nor fat. Some are even female. All are sincere.

.

I will always seek out and respect your opinions Bob A.

The bold print is the crux of my concerns.

Excellent post Bob A.

While we are waiting on thread relocation ...

...Our PP videographer is fighting a health battle and has not been able to produce his excellent PP videos recently but if he had I'm sure that Mrs Art3, Mrs Rab1515, Raina, Char Selby and Elizabeth Najjer to name just a few might object to being described with that adjective.

Are we still waiting? Is this why so few others have joined in?

That must have been you(Bolded). I was referring to many of the men(as seen through the eyes of your critics).

I answered of lot of the questions in this OP in another thread just a few hours ago, but it got deleted in the big Wipe Out during yet another thread hijack/derailment.

I take responsibility for the Patriot Picket direction because I was the one who started a thread several years ago to say I was done with backpedaling.

I asked who wanted to participate in an Inside/Outside operation that involved shaming Democrats trying to push infringement wet-dream law through the legislature. In our first two "seasons" working the bricks while others worked the halls, the Democrats were 0-for-22 on major infringement legislation.

Mostly because what was written was complete garbage, as legislation goes.

It is not possible to gauge what the PP does through the Maryland Shooters looking glass. You admit you don't care to participate, but you watch some of the "PP videos" and see some of the pictures.

I must admit, I have watched with great enjoyment.

The Patriot Picket tactics are designed to occupy space on media platforms. The best example was August 4th at the "March On The NRA". Had we not been there, the media would have given 100% of the coverage to David Hogg and his lackeys. Most TV news stories are 3 minutes and ALL 3 minutes would have been lavished on their speeches, their insulting infringement signs and their acting out.

Instead, our messaging and availability of Mrs. Rab1515 and Tyler Yzaguirre (both HALF my age) earned us about HALF of the TV coverage time for the March. Mrs. Rab posted that she had done numerous on-camera interviews, and some with international video crews.

Musta missed that, but aren't we nit picking.

So the ANTIs lost half of the airtime to spew, and we earned that half of the airtime to demonstrate that the firearms rights issue HAS TWO SIDES that both want to be heard.

The people who participate "on the bricks" SEE the media interviews being conducted that are likely playing on outlets you don't watch. The Patriot Picket is a consequential tree falling in the forest, but you don't know it! This happens repeatedly.

Again. No one's accusing you all of doing or achieving nothing.

Another example was the Red Hen restaurant picket in Lexington VA last month. We were covered by local TV news who put up their footage of us and it got distributed on skads of websites you don't look at.

Same for the "Rally Against Firearms" at the US Capitol earlier this summer. We stood a silent watch with our signs and captured a significant part of the network/cable coverage that the organizers planned to be just a day of young people bellyaching about guns.

And that was the best tactic given the occasion.

Interviews with The Patriot Picket derail one-sided coverage, and often our signs--which we think are clever--are favored by video editors over scenes of people just standing around on the ANTI side.

At the same time we are occupying news media space, our Patriot Picket Facebook page--which just passed 3.2 MILLION visits, is filled with comments that we are firing up the "freedom brigades" spread all over the country. We are even getting comments from Canadians.

It is simply not possible to get the measure of the Patriot Picket through the MDS glass, and people who don't participate never see the great number of press interviews, the interactions that amp up our side, or the conversations that swing the undecided over to our viewpoint.

Please, what does mean, specifically the bolded phrases?

As I am in "Multiquote" mode, I can't see what you're asking. If it is the "running with the big dogs" part, this is another crux point. Getting cuffed up for something you did or didn't do is one thing. What happens, in the future, when some real ruffians crash one of your parties? What then? Are you prepared for such a situation? I hope it never does, but life comes with few guarantees.
You are being too obsequious...spill it, brother...

Everyone obviously has a 1st amendment right to freedom of speech, but there's something about this thread that seems wrong. Do we really need to have a PP complaint thread? Isn't this something that could be better handled with a 1 on 1 conversation?

Criticism can be hard to take. I understand. Most of you have known me here for several years now. And by now you should know, this out of my character. That should also suggest to you, 'hmm, maybe something to this'.

I've been hearing a good bit of grumbling of late. Grumbling by long time members here. I took the initiative. Maybe I was unsuitable person for this, but that horse has left the barn.

PP isn't supposed to be the totality of the 2A movement, it's an additional approach not replacing the others .

PP participants can and do select which events to participate , and what specific messages to convey .

All like minded people are welcome and encouraged to attend and participate . If people are of a certain age or certain girth , we should self censor ourselves from public discourse ?

In reality, there are lots of PP complaint thread fragments. While I sympathise with your wish for civil off-board conversation, MDS is a geographically scattered group, and this here is where we come together.

Might as well have a thread devoted to clearing the air, or at least airing the complaints, where they can be addressed in digital public. Bickering and sniping in threads with other subjects is disrespectful to those who resent derailment, and diffuses the issues, without defusing them. (I thought that was pretty clever. Hope you noticed.)

So might as well have it out, here, where everyone knows where to find it, and anyone who wants to wade in can have his say. (Beg pardon, Katie. You know I like what you say, but, you know, pronouns.)

Again Bob A. One for the ages.

I tend to agree with you but it's stayed open so far. Maybe this will be precedent for any other complaint threads, didn't like the pig roast? Start a thread and let those who didn't attend bitch about it. Think the Hooligan shoots are exclusionary? Start a thread and whine some more. It will be like Festivus but with absentee ballots.


My prediction, and it's spot on through three pages, is that those with a major beef will be the ones who have never participated.

Well I can only vouch for myself and you are correct. I have never participated. That doesn't make me blind.

You are never forced to help out, but should the PP scale down the “sales pitch”, or cater to not hurt feelings?

I don’t think so.

And a man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts could me
But he can't be a man 'cause he does not smoke
The same cigarettes as me.

...and I bet other “advertisers” aren’t getting your letters of complaint.(??)

My feelings are just fine. No butt-hurt what so ever. I can not say the same for some of the other participants in this thread though.

I'll state now and for the record that I have no problem with anything the PP does or how they do it. If these guys want to spend every waking-moment protesting infringers, antis and other assorted leftist nuts, the more power to them and God bless them. Pranking Maxine Waters is still one of the funniest things I've ever read or seen on MDS. The demonstration at NRA HQ in the wake of the Orlando nightclub shootings was a class act and unmatched by anything they've done since then.

Nope, my only 'beef' is how the leadership of the PP chooses to attack members of this community who dare violate the 'sanctity' of their cause by either questioning or criticizing it. Resorting to childish name-calling, posting screen shots of private text messages, bringing off-group disputes on MDS and otherwise employing the same type of tactics as the groups they oppose does more to discredit themselves than anything I could post on MDS. Think about it. Who in their right mind would ever willingly divulge their personal info to the leadership of the PP after the kind of infantile BS we've seen used against both welder and Blaster during the last few months?

We're getting warmer...

I’m trying to picture the opposite of big ego starting/running any enterprise.

Ok, we all got scrapped up and now we get back to the real enemy...The State of Maryland.

Big egos are dangerous in certain situations. Situations where things can get out of hand real fast. I think the word you are looking for is confident.
Some of the leaders here, I wouldn't follow out of a burning house.

Sometimes it’s best to stay in your own lane...

Where it's safe?

I went back and looked at all your threads, and most of your posts, and you are nothing more than a petulant child...

We are very welcoming, and very forgiving...

I hope that is true...

I'm following this with much interest, but for now I'm trying to decide whether or not i should finish my glass of orange juice with a fly floating in it.

Sweet Baby Jeebus! Look what the f**k I done stirred up!

Based on news I received just a little while ago, I am asking for you patience for this thread derail.

One of our co-leaders in the Patriot Picket, Ed Leary, who is known to all here as EL1227, says his doctors have told him he can only expect to live a few more weeks. Ed is on home hospice at his place in Edgewater.

He really embodies the fightin' spirit in 2A. God bless him!

Would you please drop into the "Prayers For EL1227" thread to wish him the best in this time of need. Thank you so very much.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=205306

I will forever keep Ed in my thoughts and prayers.

**********************************************************

The overriding complaint I keep hearing(and have experienced first hand) is the attitudes of a few of the ranking members of this organization. It's an "If you aren't with us, you must be against us" attitude. It's the way some treat non-members of the PP. I can't understand how people within the organization haven't picked up on this. It's constant and disgusting. Pure egotistical elitism.

Secondly. I am worried about mob-mentality. Yelling back and forth across picket lines achieves nothing. Volume and vitriol has never won an argument. If this ever became part of the standard operating procedure, you'll have lost the battle of ideals. I guess I'm just not hip, but marching and chanting slogans doesn't do it for me.

Lastly, Things can go screwy in a hurry. Are you physically and mentally prepared for the worst scenario on the bricks? As things get ratcheted up, some other group, a little less scrupulous than yours decides to 'crash' your party. Got a plan?

 

[rseymorejr]

I have not participated with the Patriot Picket, mostly due to my own personal shortcomings. BUT I support what they do 100%. They get in the faces of the enemy and, politely and civilly, let them know that what they are doing to us is wrong.

The short and to the point signs are bordering on genius. Their calmness, knowledge and professionalism is doing a lot, I think, to reach some of the not so committed antis and showing them that gun owners are just like everyone else.

I was proud to chip in what little I did to help Jeff out with the legal bills. If anyone has a problem with collecting money for his defense just don't contribute. I admire the stamina and level of commitment that Jeff and the rest of the PP show, ready at short notice to go wherever is necessary to defend our most basic rights.

As far as getting upset when "Democrats" are called out as enemies of Liberty, I think it's not all D registered voters that are the enemy, rather the party that has been hijacked by leftist extremists who want nothing more than to control us and "fundamentally" change America.

 

[outrider58]

The greatest service this thread can provide is to continue as the Official Patriot Picket Complaint thread where people can post their issues.

What is really tiresome is the same serial complainers posting the SAME complaints 10 to 12 times all across unrelated threads, where they are derailing them.

So, complainers delight thyself here and know that your gripes are officiallly recorded without having to repeat them ad nauseam elsewhere.

Complainers, this is home!

That's very helpful of you. Thanks

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Folks who disagree with other folks aren’t racists or complainers or Democrats. They just disagree.

It’s not healthy personally or as a community to see folks bunker down and treat differing opinions with disdain.

That’s not a good sign. But then again, I’m seeing plenty of bad signs hereabouts.

Bunkering says a lot. What it doesn’t do is acknowledge or understand.

I guess I’d better understand if I’d walked the bricks...

 

[ironpony]

Some of the pants Rack wears look too big for him.

 

[welder516]

We have some highly respected members here at MDS on both sides of the isle , it would be nice if the members on both sides could talk and maybe not here maybe in PM's or phone calls

When Outrider58 voices some concern or even issues , there may be something there . And Nnztg8r they would be 2 members I would reach out to get some information from . Just my opinion

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Some of the pants Rack wears look too big for him.

He’d certainly attract more attention if he wore some MC Hammer pants. Dayglow orange would be ideal for grabbing attention.

I’m just sayin