Shells for HD. What should I use?

[CrazySanMan]

I have thought a lot about this. I have a slug as my first shell to fire because i figure the first shot will be my best aimed shot. Next is a 7 1/2 birdshot shell. If I miss with the slug I quickly follow up with the birdshot while running for some kind of cover. The remaining rounds are all 00 buck.

What's behind your shots is very important to know. If someone comes in my back door I am free to blast away, but if someone comes in the front my son's bedroom will likely be behind the bad guy. My son knows to hit the deck with his bed as some extra protection in case someone enters the front. Still, I am well aware he is there and will not shoot in his direction unless I have a good shot.

 

[Biggfoot44]

What Scarcqb said about angles and fields of fire, regardless of load used. Assume that any shotgun load will go thru walls. If that's a dealbreaker , go to weapon Plan B instead.

00B is rarely a *bad* choice.

That said in the abstract , I would prefer 1B for better pattern density while still decent sized individual pellets.

But my other generic druther , is I prefer buffered & plated , preferably at "tactical" velocities (aka low recoil) . Federal listed such a load starting a cpl yrs ago , but I've yet to ever find any.

The Fedeal 132 loading is readily available , and usually in stock at my local store we love to hate. But at the moment is loaded with the Wally World Win 00B , and a larged supply of RIO is on hand also.

For strictly indoor distances ( as from the OP's other thread ) 4B is also a viable option, to be unlikely to exit a felon.

Avoid birdshot of any flavor.

I even "know" people with lots of 1st hand experience who favor Foster style slugs over any buckshot.

 

[Scarab]

All good info guys. Hopefully people other than myself are gaining knowledge from this discussion.

Scarab

 

[Gryphon]

+1 on good quality 00 Buck (2-3/4" are fine), but take the shotgun to the range, fire it, make sure it cycles properly, learn the recoil to expect before you really need to use it and understand its going to make one hell of a mess.

 

[44man]

i prefer #4 buck. more pellets,better coverage in the pattern, a bit less penetration thru walls if you miss or pellets that didnt hit the mark and it will still kill a deer and i believe a deer to be tougher than a human mostly so i have no doubts that it will stop an intruder. just my 2 cents.

 

[swinokur]

I like the 15 pellet 01 buck from Federal 132 1B


http://le.atk.com/ammunition/federal/buckshot/details.aspx?id=998

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot56.htm

 

[Fishguy]

I think it may be the choice if you live in a studio apartment with paper thin walls between units. Don't be shooting you neighbors if you miss the BG.

Birdshot does not have enough penetration to reliably incapacitate a person. Many people have learned this the hard way.

 

[BradMacc82]

Birdshot does not have enough penetration to reliably incapacitate a person. Many people have learned this the hard way.

IIRC, didn't Cheney shoot a 70+ year old in the FACE with birdshot?

Yeah, if it ain't going to stop grandpa from stupid close distance, I ain't even going to consider it as an option.

 

[Indiana Jones]

IIRC, didn't Cheney shoot a 70+ year old in the FACE with birdshot?

Yeah, if it ain't going to stop grandpa from stupid close distance, I ain't even going to consider it as an option.

Actually Cheney was using a Barrett M99 with Depleted Uranium. What you DONT know was that the "old man" was Chuck Norris.

 

[stu929]

I still have fo vote for some .223 round other than fmj. Most everyone here seems to have a ebr, you can carry more rounds, its smaller and easier to maneuver in a house, and you dont have to worry about over penetration.

If I had to buckshot would be the choice out of a shotgun but again not my first choice.

 

[JohnnyE]

Birdshot does not have enough penetration to reliably incapacitate a person. Many people have learned this the hard way.

At what range was the target when they "...learned this the hard way."? I am interested in empirical statistics on shootings under 5 yards involving bird shot. Clearly there is no difference between being shot with OO or #8 shot if the muzzle is pressed against you. Clearly there IS a difference between the impact of these two loads at 20 yards. What about one yard? Three? Four? 10? Distance is everything.

I also care how quickly shot of various sizes bleeds energy over distance. If I have a clean miss that goes through a window, OO at 25 yards will do a lot more damage to innocents than #4 buck, which will do more than #4 shot, which will do more than #8. It has to do with sectional density. I really want to continue to learn. MD Shooters, enlighten me please!

 

[pbharvey]

Is there really any significant patterning difference between 00 & 4 at HD ranges inside the home? I realize that everyone wants the absolute best chance of protecting their family (and I do too) but at some point I think some of the things we do are more to satisfy our own minds rather than something that will change the outcome of a shooting.

 

[Biggfoot44]

TNOutdoor9 has done testing with virtually everything from a 12ga into calibrated gelitin at single digit feet. The various sizes of birdshot gave 1-2 inches of penetration. Lead BB was giving 4-6 inch.

LE experience in the Northern US ( northern New England , Mi , Chicago , etc ) that when the Malfactors wear heavy winter clothes ( layers of leather jackets , Carharts , surplus field jackets , sweatshirts , several flannel shirts , etc) that 4B past 20 or 25yds won't always penetrate the clothing, and likewise reduced effectiveness if it did barely make it thru. Hence my conditional nod to 4B for purely indoor defensive situation. If you situation might include shooting across a yard , or down a driveway select larger buckshot.

 

[stu929]

http://www.recoilweb.com/ar-vs-shotgun-for-home-defense-again-2-of-2-39203.html

 

[Streetgang]

I have thought a lot about this. I have a slug as my first shell to fire because i figure the first shot will be my best aimed shot. Next is a 7 1/2 birdshot shell. If I miss with the slug I quickly follow up with the birdshot while running for some kind of cover. The remaining rounds are all 00 buck.

Interesting you say that. In Kodiak we alternated 00 Buck with slugs. With the buck first then the slugs. The thought process was if the 00 Buck didn't do the job, it certainly would slow the bad guy or Bear (more than likely) down enough to get a well aimed slug on target.
I carry that thought with my HD shotgun now.

 

[bilbravo]

I talked to a guy once who said he loads a single shot of rubber shot with 00 buckshot behind it for follow-ups.

What are people's thoughts on rubber "warning" shots?

 

[joppaj]

I talked to a guy once who said he loads a single shot of rubber shot with 00 buckshot behind it for follow-ups.

What are people's thoughts on rubber "warning" shots?

It's dumb. You may only get one shot, make it count. Beyond that you're weakening your own defense. The only reason to fire a weapon at someone is that your life is in danger. A rubber round does not indicate that you were in fear for your life.

 

[bilbravo]

It's dumb. You may only get one shot, make it count. Beyond that you're weakening your own defense. The only reason to fire a weapon at someone is that your life is in danger. A rubber round does not indicate that you were in fear for your life.

His argument was that it would look better that you weren't trying to kill, only protect/deter.

I lean more towards what you think too, but in Maryland I can see how his point may be valid. At any rate, just trying to see how others felt about it. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Mickey the Dragon]

His argument was that it would look better that you weren't trying to kill, only protect/deter.

I lean more towards what you think too, but in Maryland I can see how his point may be valid. At any rate, just trying to see how others felt about it. Thanks for your reply.

The locked front door was supposed to serve as a deterrent, if the person gets past that then I want to utilize the tools best suited to stopping the threat and protecting myself and my family. A rubber bullet is not the best tool to stop a threat immediately. My HD shotgun is loaded with 3" 00 buck and my HD AR is loaded with 77-grain OTM in 5.56 from Black Hills. Regarding the choice of 00 buck, I live in a single-family home and my wife is the only other person in the house and any shots from my bedroom would either a) be going down the stairs into the ground or b) through at least one interior wall and one exterior wall and then it's 75 yards to the nearest house.

 

[byf43]

00B.

Before 'the panic' I picked up a bunch of Remington 00b for $1.96/box.

Not too long ago, a 'sleeve' (10 boxes of 5 rounds) of Federal 00B w/ Flite Control Wad 'fell' into my truck.

I picked up another 'sleeve' of this stuff from a local gunshow.

I like this Federal stuff!!!!! Patterns very well out to 20 yards. (Well within HD distances.)
At 7 yards, there's ONE big hole when used with my 870 w/ IC choke.