SELF DEFENSE AMMO - GUN SPECIFIC

[blackdogactual]

I am trying to find self defense ammo that will function without hiccups in my Sig P938. Yesterday I tried shooting Underwood 90 grain +P Xtreme Defender, which is what I carry in my other small compact EDC pistols, and had several failure to feed issues. The bullet was hanging up on the feed ramp. I am hoping other members have this pistol and have worked through different self defense ammo to find one that functions flawlessly. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help. Just trying to same time and money by picking members brains.

 

[Dave MP]

Lots of info here.

 

[bonehead]

I am trying to find self defense ammo that will function without hiccups in my Sig P938. Yesterday I tried shooting Underwood 90 grain +P Xtreme Defender, which is what I carry in my other small compact EDC pistols, and had several failure to feed issues. The bullet was hanging up on the feed ramp. I am hoping other members have this pistol and have worked through different self defense ammo to find one that functions flawlessly. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help. Just trying to same time and money by picking members brains.

 

[bonehead]

That underwood stuff is $$$ and is prone to fail to feed. My Kahr 380 will not load the 60 grain version, even after polishing the feed ramp. I think the pistol is so small and tolerances are tight. I use a dremel tool felt tip loaded with flitz polish. On your nine mm try polishing the feed ramp first then go from there.

 

[Bullfrog]

I believe I always used Hornady Critical Defense with mine, never had any issues.

I'll have to check and confirm, I haven't carried it since I bought my CZs, but it's in the safe with holster and still loaded mags beside it.

 

[scottyfz6]

147 grain hst in anything but my 1911's and in them 147 grain golden saber ( Its more fmj shaped and feeds )

 

[44 Bulldog]

My problem also, this ammo will not feed into my Ruger P85 MK2 I bought in 1991 or my Walther PP2 I just recently purchased both 9 mm.

 

[bean93x]

Light weight for caliber high velocity loads have been proven numerous times to be sub optimal performers in terminal ballistic tests and should be avoided.

Try running some 124gr HST or gold dot which are pretty much still the gold standard in 2024. Hornady critical duty (not the critical defense) is also a good runner up and I guarantee between the three options, one or more will work flawlessly in your 938.

 

[blackdogactual]

Thanks everyone. I do have some 124 and 147 HST, so I will try those next time I shoot.

I had always thought the Underwood 90 grain +P Xtreme Defender performed as advertised in ballistic gel. 12” to 18” of penetration with large permanent wound channel. This is the first pistol that I’ve had cycling issues with that ammo.

I hope the HST works, since I already have some. If not I’ll buy some Critical Defense and Golden Saber and try those.

Thanks again. Much appreciated.

 

[Bullfrog]

Light weight for caliber high velocity loads have been proven numerous times to be sub optimal performers in terminal ballistic tests and should be avoided.

Try running some 124gr HST or gold dot which are pretty much still the gold standard in 2024. Hornady critical duty (not the critical defense) is also a good runner up and I guarantee between the three options, one or more will work flawlessly in your 938.

Do we know the Critical Duty will function as intended in that short of a barrel?

As I recall reading, Critical Defense is designed to perform well in a short barrel, specifically in cases where velocity may be lower and the rounds used in Critical Duty may not expand as intended.

Maybe it's just marketing hype, but I'd like to see results from testing Critical Duty in a 3" barrel before using it there, esp. since the manufacturer implies you should use something else.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Light weight for caliber high velocity loads have been proven numerous times to be sub optimal performers in terminal ballistic tests and should be avoided.

Try running some 124gr HST or gold dot which are pretty much still the gold standard in 2024. Hornady critical duty (not the critical defense) is also a good runner up and I guarantee between the three options, one or more will work flawlessly in your 938.

bean93X and anyone.

I do not have any 9mm ammo yet, whether it be for wad cutter type or defense type. Also, I am new to 9mm guns and the ammo. So your advice will serve me well. I intend to get some defense loads like the HST 124gr and wad cutters for practice. Will I do best to keep my FMJ ammo the same grains etc as the defense?

 

[remrug]

Just a guess, but maybe 90 grainers are too short to function well???

 

[outrider58]

bean93X and anyone.

I do not have any 9mm ammo yet, whether it be for wad cutter type or defense type. Also, I am new to 9mm guns and the ammo. I have a Sig P320 M17 and from what I read, I can use regular of +P. So your advice will serve me well. I intend to get some defense loads like the HST 124gr and wad cutters for practice. Anyone have suggestions for target practice 9mm ammo??

Not an expert on 9mm ammo(I load my own), but a 9mm wadcutter or semi wadcutter is going to be rare and may be difficult to cycle in a semi-auto gun. My preference for loading 9mm for practice rounds is a truncated cone bullet. They cycle really well in most semi-autos and they kinda mimic the characteristics of a hollow point bullet.

Winchester Ammo, USA 9mm Truncated Cone Full Metal Case 147 GR 50 Round Box

Winchester Ammo, USA 9mm Truncated Cone Full Metal Case 147 GR 50 Round Box

store.borderssportinggoods.com

Buy Lawman Handgun Training for USD 26.99 | Speer

Shopping for the Lawman Handgun Training - Learn more about the latest Lawman Handgun Training and other hunting, shooting or reloading gear at Speer.

www.speer.com

 

[Blaster229]

Critical DUTY® & Critical Defense® Differences - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Critical DUTY® & Critical Defense® Differences...

www.hornady.com

 

[Outta Air]

IMI 9mm, 124 gr die-cut in a CZ; like the one I have for sale
P 10 C

 

[Biggfoot44]

I hadn't commented yet , because these quickly develop into " my gun likes XYX " , " my gun hated XYZ " . But I'm finally throw in some basic fundamentals on the topic :

First step - Shoot a cpl hundred brand name , USA FMJ ( 124 or 115 ) . Confirm the gun is 100 % with FMJ . If not , address any issues. Also accomplishes any break in with less expensive ammo . Once it is confirmed with FMJ , then :

Step Two - Try with defensive aka JHP ammo . Start with your otherwise preferred 9mm load . ( For Me, this is 124 HST . Not saying there aren't others as good , but the excellent prices on 50rd boxes are enough to stack it deep , for me . Also I am biased against 147gr as a category, but y'all do y'all .)

If your default choice works , great ! .

If not , various loads are designed with feed profiles to mimic FMJ . Including, but not exclusively: Critical Defensive & Duty , PowerBall , Gaurd Dog , formerly known as EFMJ. Also the old school Remington Original 115 JHP was designed to have exactly same feed profile as their FMJ . At least one of those , if not all of those should work in a gun that is reliable with Ball .

Eternal Step Three - Something else catches your eye , get a couple boxes , and try it .


************************

My Shooting and Hunting Partner #2 buys and sells guns , like I change my socks. The last he outlined their current inventory, I think they still had the 938 , and was part of Wife's carry rotation. ( Not a token " wife gun " , she's a full blown Gun Crank , and Instructor in her own right .)

Next I talk to him , I'll check what they use / did use for carry ammo in it .

 

[jc1240]

Anyone try that "external hollow point ammo in an M&P Shield or even in any gun? I have mine loaded with Remington's Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun ammo, but the external hollow point has caught my interest.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Made me look them up .

The " external hollow point " is a variant on the concept of what I call " Phillips Screwdriver Bullets " .

The concept is not without merit , and potentially could work as well as " normal " defensive ammo , without a harsh cut off lower velocity floor .

Subtle variations in shape can make significant difference. How this stuff compares to say the Extreme Defenender lines from Underwood or Leigh , I dunno . Donate a box of each , and I can test it in the Behind the Barn Ballistics Lab from a 3.1 inch bbl .

The Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun 9mm used to be a slightly tweaked Golden Sabre .

The Golden Sabre is a known quantity. Been around in basic form for decades, with continuous tweaks and improvements. Oversimplified verdict - If not the Most- est Best- est , it's still pretty good , and within the half dozen loads close enough to not make much difference between them .

If you're asking, between the two , stick with the R-P , unless and until you are motivated to do extensive testing on that other one , to convince yourself of it's performance vis a vis both conventional JHP , and existing Extreme Defenders .

FWIW - Remington discontinued it under the Ultimate Defense name , and repackaged it as Golden Sabre Short Bbl ...... for $7 higher MSRP per 20 rd box .

 

[Boats]

I had always thought the Underwood 90 grain +P Xtreme Defender performed as advertised in ballistic gel. 12” to 18” of penetration with large permanent wound channel. This is the first pistol that I’ve had cycling issues with that ammo.
.

That was my impression as well.

That underwood stuff is $$$ and is prone to fail to feed..

I have not had any problems with underwood 9mm, 10mm or .45.

Light weight for caliber high velocity loads have been proven numerous times to be sub optimal performers in terminal ballistic tests and should be avoided.

This is news to me. I am not trying to argue, but can you provide some evidence?

The slow motion videos I've seen, the bullet appear to destabilize and yaw creating massive wound channels, kind of like how 5.56 does but with a pistol round.


This is an example of 90gr 9mm extreme defender .(Skip to the 3:00 mark)



Here is another one in a ballistic dummy with 9mm and . 45.

 

[jc1240]

Made me look them up .

The " external hollow point " is a variant on the concept of what I call " Phillips Screwdriver Bullets " .

The concept is not without merit , and potentially could work as well as " normal " defensive ammo , without a harsh cut off lower velocity floor .

Subtle variations in shape can make significant difference. How this stuff compares to say the Extreme Defenender lines from Underwood or Leigh , I dunno . Donate a box of each , and I can test it in the Behind the Barn Ballistics Lab from a 3.1 inch bbl .

The Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun 9mm used to be a slightly tweaked Golden Sabre .

The Golden Sabre is a known quantity. Been around in basic form for decades, with continuous tweaks and improvements. Oversimplified verdict - If not the Most- est Best- est , it's still pretty good , and within the half dozen loads close enough to not make much difference between them .

If you're asking, between the two , stick with the R-P , unless and until you are motivated to do extensive testing on that other one , to convince yourself of it's performance vis a vis both conventional JHP , and existing Extreme Defenders .

FWIW - Remington discontinued it under the Ultimate Defense name , and repackaged it as Golden Sabre Short Bbl ...... for $7 higher MSRP per 20 rd box .

Excellent post/info. Thank you. When is FJB going to save us from inflation like he promises?