SBR at the range question

[snyperdave]

SO I just received my NFA stamp for my SBR build and know that I am supposed to take the stamp with me to the range whenever the SBR will go to the range. My question here is do I need to have a copy of my trust with it to since it was done using a trust?

Thanks

 

[Klunatic]

You don't have to have a copy of your stamp. It is recommend but not nessesary. Just remember if your transport out of state you do need to apply to transport. You can fill out the form that is good for a year to transport to a place you go often.

I got a Magpul grip and shrunk a copy of the stamp small enough to fit in the grip.

 

[teratos]

I have an envelope with copies of my stamps and my trust. I take it with me whenever I take NFA items anywhere. I don't think it is necessary to have the trust, but I figure it is better to have it than not if someone gets a bug up their ass.

 

[snyperdave]

Ok thanks for the info. I am just trying to safe and not sorry. We know MD is not friendly to any firearm.

 

[Kingjamez]

I have a folder on my dropbox called NFA docs. I scan all my stamps to PDF and store them in that cloud folder. That way I can access it from my phone anywhere. I don't bother with keeping "papers" with me when I go to the range.

-Jim

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Just remember a NFA stamp is Tax info, nothing more. Do you show people your tax return every time you buy a large item to prove you paid tax on the money you are about to spend? Nope... If you look at the NFA forms, you only have to show it to the ATF.

Directly from the form 4:

Proof of Registration: This approved application is the registrant’s proof of registration and it shall be made available to any ATF officer upon request

Notice it does not say you have to show it to Local Law enforcement or any other organization? Why does the ATF not have a list of people who own MGs that police can view? Because its tax info!

So if you don't have your form on you, you have not broken any law. If MSP walks up to you when you are shooting it, you don't have to supply them with your Form 4. They have their own registration. Tell them to call it in and check it. However no one carries MSPs yearly registration paperwork for some reason?

Look, in a practical world, its good to carry a copy. However its not the end of the world like a lot of people would have you think. I carry a copy because its much easier for me to supply it than have some moron cop arrest me and have me prove its legal from the back of a police car or county lockup.

 

[snyperdave]

I have a folder on my dropbox called NFA docs. I scan all my stamps to PDF and store them in that cloud folder. That way I can access it from my phone anywhere. I don't bother with keeping "papers" with me when I go to the range.

-Jim

Now that was just the best thing yet. I will most certainly do this. My iPhone is with me everywhere.

 

[teratos]

Just remember a NFA stamp is Tax info, nothing more. Do you show people your tax return every time you buy a large item to prove you paid tax on the money you are about to spend? Nope... If you look at the NFA forms, you only have to show it to the ATF.

Directly from the form:

Do you think that scenario is only going to occur at home? Not arguing, just trying to make sure I comply correctly. You are more stamp-saavy than I.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Do you think that scenario is only going to occur at home? Not arguing, just trying to make sure I comply correctly. You are more stamp-saavy than I.

Sorry, hit submit early and had to edit it to finish my comment. Now it reads a bit different.

Who knows when they will run into a problem with NFA items? Drive, shooting, at home because someone turned you in and your house got raided? Who knows...

In reality, how many of these cases to you even hear about? My point it more to make people realize that forgetting a piece of paper does not equal having an unregistered MG.

 

[teratos]

Sorry, hit submit early and had to edit it to finish my comment. Now it reads a bit different.

Who knows when they will run into a problem with NFA items? Drive, shooting, at home because someone turned you in and your house got raided? Who knows...

In reality, how many of these cases to you even hear about? My point it more to make people realize that forgetting a piece of paper does not equal having an unregistered MG.

I have never heard of a case. I just don't want to be the first, so I try to be always prepared.

 

[snyperdave]

I have never heard of a case. I just don't want to be the first, so I try to be always prepared.

That's what I am saying

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I have never heard of a case. I just don't want to be the first, so I try to be always prepared.

People always say, what can hurt by doing to much. Well this is a good example.

What right to a cop have coming up to someone shooting a MG to assume its illegal? It may or may not be but why is it assumed it is illegal. If he walks up to you shooting a handgun or now an Assault rifle, no one would think of carrying their transfer paperwork on them. However they could be illegal. However no one feels the need to prove they are not breaking the law. However because the NFA community carries this paperwork on them and hands it over without second thought, its become expected and cops feel like they are entitled to see it. Now you are left in the position where if you don't have it or it got lost, there is a good chance you might get arrested. Everyone trying to cover their ass has put all of us at danger. For those that always carry the paperwork with them.... trust me the time you are stopped will be the one day you thought you had it but forgot it! This is America, you are innocent until proven guilty.... at least until we create a culture where we don't challenge the police to prove we are doing something illegal and think its ok if they just assume we are breaking the law until we prove we are not.

Just think if there was a cop at every BMW dealer who as you purchased a new car asked to see your tax return from last year to make sure you were not buying it with Drug money. You would not just hand that over to him because he assumes everyone buying BMWs is a drug dealer. Yeah its not 100% the same but your form 4 is Private tax info!

 

[rsideout]

I keep laminated color copies of all form 1's and 4's in my range bag. I also keep a copy of the annual MD Machine gun registration form in the range bag. PDFs are stored in several locations as are another set of hard copies. The originals are kept in a safe.

I've only been asked once to see my forms, and that was at Continental. In general, I figure that having more paper work than less is better.

 

[SneakySh0rty]

I have a folder on my dropbox called NFA docs. I scan all my stamps to PDF and store them in that cloud folder. That way I can access it from my phone anywhere. I don't bother with keeping "papers" with me when I go to the range.

-Jim

This is exactly what I did. In this day and age smartphones are very common and cell/data reception is good enough to access it anywhere. As a fall back plan, in case of no service, I do save a copy to my phone.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[teratos]

People always say, what can hurt by doing to much. Well this is a good example.

What right to a cop have coming up to someone shooting a MG to assume its illegal? It may or may not be but why is it assumed it is illegal. If he walks up to you shooting a handgun or now an Assault rifle, no one would think of carrying their transfer paperwork on them. However they could be illegal. However no one feels the need to prove they are not breaking the law. However because the NFA community carries this paperwork on them and hands it over without second thought, its become expected and cops feel like they are entitled to see it. Now you are left in the position where if you don't have it or it got lost, there is a good chance you might get arrested. Everyone trying to cover their ass has put all of us at danger. For those that always carry the paperwork with them.... trust me the time you are stopped will be the one day you thought you had it but forgot it! This is America, you are innocent until proven guilty.... at least until we create a culture where we don't challenge the police to prove we are doing something illegal and think its ok if they just assume we are breaking the law until we prove we are not.

Just think if there was a cop at every BMW dealer who as you purchased a new car asked to see your tax return from last year to make sure you were not buying it with Drug money. You would not just hand that over to him because he assumes everyone buying BMWs is a drug dealer. Yeah its not 100% the same but your form 4 is Private tax info!

I see what you are saying, but when have you known the letter of the law to interfere with an arrest and prosecution?

 

[SWO Daddy]

People always say, what can hurt by doing to much. Well this is a good example.

What right to a cop have coming up to someone shooting a MG to assume its illegal? It may or may not be but why is it assumed it is illegal. If he walks up to you shooting a handgun or now an Assault rifle, no one would think of carrying their transfer paperwork on them. However they could be illegal. However no one feels the need to prove they are not breaking the law. However because the NFA community carries this paperwork on them and hands it over without second thought, its become expected and cops feel like they are entitled to see it. Now you are left in the position where if you don't have it or it got lost, there is a good chance you might get arrested. Everyone trying to cover their ass has put all of us at danger. For those that always carry the paperwork with them.... trust me the time you are stopped will be the one day you thought you had it but forgot it! This is America, you are innocent until proven guilty.... at least until we create a culture where we don't challenge the police to prove we are doing something illegal and think its ok if they just assume we are breaking the law until we prove we are not.

Just think if there was a cop at every BMW dealer who as you purchased a new car asked to see your tax return from last year to make sure you were not buying it with Drug money. You would not just hand that over to him because he assumes everyone buying BMWs is a drug dealer. Yeah its not 100% the same but your form 4 is Private tax info!

This. I do keep a copy of my forms both on my phone and also shrunk/laminated when I go to the range - but I challenge anyone who asks to see them or asserts that I'm under some obligation to keep them with the items at all times.

 

[rsideout]

People always say, what can hurt by doing to much. Well this is a good example.

What right to a cop have coming up to someone shooting a MG to assume its illegal? It may or may not be but why is it assumed it is illegal. If he walks up to you shooting a handgun or now an Assault rifle, no one would think of carrying their transfer paperwork on them. However they could be illegal. However no one feels the need to prove they are not breaking the law. However because the NFA community carries this paperwork on them and hands it over without second thought, its become expected and cops feel like they are entitled to see it. Now you are left in the position where if you don't have it or it got lost, there is a good chance you might get arrested. Everyone trying to cover their ass has put all of us at danger. For those that always carry the paperwork with them.... trust me the time you are stopped will be the one day you thought you had it but forgot it! This is America, you are innocent until proven guilty.... at least until we create a culture where we don't challenge the police to prove we are doing something illegal and think its ok if they just assume we are breaking the law until we prove we are not.

If refusing to show your paperwork to a LEO just to make a point is worth your time and expense for a legal battle, have fun.

I see what you are saying, but when have you known the letter of the law to interfere with an arrest and prosecution?

Agreed.

 

[snyperdave]

This. I do keep a copy of my forms both on my phone and also shrunk/laminated when I go to the range - but I challenge anyone who asks to see them or asserts that I'm under some obligation to keep them with the items at all times.

I am in on this. Just like when a cop pulls you over and asks if I know why. "Well no I do not". If you say something like I was driving to fast you have just admitted to it and there is no way out. I will always challenge the "why are you asking me questions" for no real good reason.

 

[damifinowfish]

Working at a range, I have only asked once for paperwork, but did not request to look at it. That was only to determine whether or not someone was following the range rules. As it turned out the rifle in question was a look alike belt feed AR machine gun that was only a semi auto!

However it's all way good to be able to prove on the spot that you have a legal firearm in this crazy world we live in.

The one time I came close to being in trouble for questionable firearm activity we where able to open up a binder that had copies of the land deed, Paper work for all the machine guns, and all of our licences. Once we pulled out that binder and officer friendly saw all the documentations he became even more friendlier and ask if he could shoot some of our stuff. That really pissed off the complaining neighbor that was more then 3/4 of a mile away.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I keep laminated color copies of all form 1's and 4's in my range bag. I also keep a copy of the annual MD Machine gun registration form in the range bag. PDFs are stored in several locations as are another set of hard copies. The originals are kept in a safe.

I've only been asked once to see my forms, and that was at Continental. In general, I figure that having more paper work than less is better.

Yes but as you know, you will never be questioned for it until the day you forget your range bag and you dropped your phone in a puddle...

I see what you are saying, but when have you known the letter of the law to interfere with an arrest and prosecution?

Yes, like I said, I still carry copies. However at what point is it to much. Will people in MD start carrying copies of their MSP paperwork for PreSM281 Assault rifles do prove they are legal? I lost some of my paperwork in a move once. At the time I did not really care. Now that SB281 past... it means a bit more.

This. I do keep a copy of my forms both on my phone and also shrunk/laminated when I go to the range - but I challenge anyone who asks to see them or asserts that I'm under some obligation to keep them with the items at all times.

Thats more of my point. I keep it there to keep things from getting out of hand but I don't plan to just show it to any A-hole that walks up telling me that I am doing something illegal.

If refusing to show your paperwork to a LEO just to make a point is worth your time and expense for a legal battle, have fun.

You will not end up in a legal battle assuming its legal. You might get arrested and taken to the station but I don't see how it could go further than that. At that point they are going to find the MSP and ATF registration. Granted I don't want to go that far, so yes I carry my paperwork with me.