SBR and SRS ruling by MSP

[teratos]

You guys are forgetting that there is a lawsuit going on.

The more the MSP makes ridiculous assertions, the better the SB281 nonesense will be struck down.

This. We need them to make nonsensical statements on things. Like SBR is both a handgun and a rifle. Is it a handgun that acts like a rifle or a rifle that acts like a handgun?

The MSP has shut up about certain things. They answered my OAL question but ignored all of my HBAR questions. There's a reason for that and I know there's other things going g on behind the curtain.

Those who say its no big deal are of no consequence to me because THEY, nor their biased advice will save my ass if the State goes after me for FSA2013 violations. The law is screwy and vague and needs to be clarified. Ill ask questions and help however I can but I won't be the martyr for anyone.

Exactly.

 

[TNW]

The MSP has shut up about certain things. They answered my OAL question but ignored all of my HBAR questions. There's a reason for that and I know there's other things going g on behind the curtain.

Those who say its no big deal are of no consequence to me because THEY, nor their biased advice will save my ass if the State goes after me for FSA2013 violations. The law is screwy and vague and needs to be clarified. Ill ask questions and help however I can but I won't be the martyr for anyone.

Thank you. Don't understand this willful ignorance thing. I would rather know for sure I can't do something so I don't break a law.

 

[Kingjamez]

Recall, we recently found out that MSP will be treating SBRs as both a rifle and a handgun. Whatever suits their agenda.

I too first thought that MSP was swapping between handgun and rifle on a whim. However upon closely reading the code it is clear that their definitions are accurate, surprisingly. Take issue with the laws not the MSP, they actually got it right... However wrong and frustrating that is.

-Jim

 

[fightinbluhen51]

The MSP has shut up about certain things. They answered my OAL question but ignored all of my HBAR questions. There's a reason for that and I know there's other things going g on behind the curtain.

Those who say its no big deal are of no consequence to me because THEY, nor their biased advice will save my ass if the State goes after me for FSA2013 violations. The law is screwy and vague and needs to be clarified. Ill ask questions and help however I can but I won't be the martyr for anyone.

This. We need them to make nonsensical statements on things. Like SBR is both a handgun and a rifle. Is it a handgun that acts like a rifle or a rifle that acts like a handgun?




Exactly.

Thank you. Don't understand this willful ignorance thing. I would rather know for sure I can't do something so I don't break a law.

Too much

lately.

Quite frankly, make them talk more now before we get a steaming pile of Frosh for our next AG.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

I am not concerned about getting a written statement from the MSP of an exact description of an HBAR. We know it is not a government profile that accommodates a grenade launcher. We know it is not a pencil barrel. We know what a Colt Sporter HBAR barrel looks like. It is 3/4" gas block forward and at least that under the hand-guard. Some Colt Sporter HBARs had threaded barrels with flash hiders and some didn't, so flash hiders are not a problem. Colt dropped the name Sporter and started calling the HBARs, Match Target HBAR. These came in barrel lengths down to 16". All of these came with fixed stocks. Maryland law has never had any issue with collapsable stocks, so if your HBAR has one or not it does not matter.

Copies of Colt Sporter HBARs are fine, just like copies of non-HBAR Colts are not fine.

Does it need to say HBAR to be an HBAR? Does a silver dollar have to say dollar on it to be one? If the writing on gun or the dollar is worn smooth you can still recognize it and know what it is. Does having HBAR written on the rifle help avoid misidentification by the uniformed, yes but it is not necessary.

MSP is relying on us to know what an HBAR is and we should be OK with that. I know I am and continue to sell them with this unwritten understanding.

Now there is something to be said about getting a determination with our current AG, rather than from Frosh later.

 

[TNW]

I am not concerned about getting a written statement from the MSP of an exact description of an HBAR. We know it is not a government profile that accommodates a grenade launcher. We know it is not a pencil barrel. We know what a Colt Sporter HBAR barrel looks like. It is 3/4" gas block forward and at least that under the hand-guard. Some Colt Sporter HBARs had threaded barrels with flash hiders and some didn't, so flash hiders are not a problem. Colt dropped the name Sporter and started calling the HBARs, Match Target HBAR. These came in barrel lengths down to 16". All of these came with fixed stocks. Maryland law has never had any issue with collapsable stocks, so if your HBAR has one or not it does not matter.

Copies of Colt Sporter HBARs are fine, just like copies of non-HBAR Colts are not fine.

Does it need to say HBAR to be an HBAR? Does a silver dollar have to say dollar on it to be one? If the writing on gun or the dollar is worn smooth you can still recognize it and know what it is. Does having HBAR written on the rifle help avoid misidentification by the uniformed, yes but it is not necessary.

MSP is relying on us to know what an HBAR is and we should be OK with that. I know I am and continue to sell them with this unwritten understanding.

Now there is something to be said about getting a determination with our current AG, rather than from Frosh later.

Well put all around.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I am not concerned about getting a written statement from the MSP of an exact description of an HBAR. We know it is not a government profile that accommodates a grenade launcher. We know it is not a pencil barrel. We know what a Colt Sporter HBAR barrel looks like. It is 3/4" gas block forward and at least that under the hand-guard. Some Colt Sporter HBARs had threaded barrels with flash hiders and some didn't, so flash hiders are not a problem. Colt dropped the name Sporter and started calling the HBARs, Match Target HBAR. These came in barrel lengths down to 16". All of these came with fixed stocks. Maryland law has never had any issue with collapsable stocks, so if your HBAR has one or not it does not matter.

Copies of Colt Sporter HBARs are fine, just like copies of non-HBAR Colts are not fine.

Does it need to say HBAR to be an HBAR? Does a silver dollar have to say dollar on it to be one? If the writing on gun or the dollar is worn smooth you can still recognize it and know what it is. Does having HBAR written on the rifle help avoid misidentification by the uniformed, yes but it is not necessary.

MSP is relying on us to know what an HBAR is and we should be OK with that. I know I am and continue to sell them with this unwritten understanding.

Now there is something to be said about getting a determination with our current AG, rather than from Frosh later.

The second they define it outside of an all inclusive, more freedom kind of way, they open the state up to expanded liability; IANAL but, equal protection anyone?

 

[Atlasarmory]

In light of current events anyone see any problem with sbs'ing an 870 on a form1 using a trust ?

 

[NateIU10]

In light of current events anyone see any problem with sbr'ing an 870 on a form1 using a trust ?

I see no issue. It's not a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun, so those copycat tests do not apply. If less than 16" barrel, it may be a handgun subject to the "handgun with fixed magazine above ten rounds" test, but that would be one funky looking SBS.

 

[MDElite]

In light of current events anyone see any problem with sbs'ing an 870 on a form1 using a trust ?

Similar question here. How about the Serbu Super Shorty?

Part V. Transfer says if the barrel is less then 16" the firearm is a handgun and subject to requirements relating to transfer of regulated firearms under PS 5, 1.

VI. Says must be approved by the roster board.

Would the Serbu have to be form 5 to the MSP?

confused

Thanks

 

[rcpd34]

I received a NOT DISAPPROVED response from MSP today on an SBR submitted on a 77R application. This was a pre-October purchase where the Form 4 recently came back.

 

[swinokur]

Was this before or after the Advisory? What date is on the 77r?

 

[Alutacon]

I have a couple of questions for our legal eagles.

1. The MD statute says I can legally possess an SBR if it is properly registered with the Feds. No mention of all the other crap MSP is putting out with the advisory. Am I not in compliance with th statute if I have a Form 4?

2. Once my SBR is under the purview of the NFA with a Form 4, how can MD regulate a Title II firearm?

3. Isn't this some kind of 10A or 14A violation? The NFA is under the purview of the Feds and MD now wants to regulate them?

How is this legal?

Answers please.

The MD law would only be preempted by federal law if it contradicted the federal law. There is nothing that prohibits MD from adding additional regulations on top of what the feds do.

 

[Alutacon]

Neither: "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The more credence people give to these tyrants the more it legitimizes their position in their minds. It is the same exact situation when a child tells you something that is wrong and you don't correct them.

reciting that clause can't be the answer to every question

 

[teratos]

I received a NOT DISAPPROVED response from MSP today on an SBR submitted on a 77R application. This was a pre-October purchase where the Form 4 recently came back.

Remember, just because they signed it doesn't mean the gun you have isn't illegal.

 

[swinokur]

So a 77r that is ND is bupkis?

 

[rcpd34]

It was after the advisory, they voided it the first time; then I sent proof of pre October and it came back not disapproved.

 

[swinokur]

So they approved an SBR not on the handgun roster but built on a pre Oct. 1 lower?

Seems like the advisory wasn't followed unless there is some exception attached to pre Oct. 1 lowers. The advisory doesn't address this.

More confusion from MSP. Big surprise.

 

[Kingjamez]

It was after the advisory, they voided it the first time; then I sent proof of pre October and it came back not disapproved.

Exceptionally interesting.... thank you for letting us know.

Perhaps MSP is enforcing this only on post Oct 1 purchases.

-Jim

 

[11b10]

Remember, just because they signed it doesn't mean the gun you have isn't illegal.

Hey guess what? If they signed off on you would be hard pressed to find a judge to put you away.. see; the state made a mistake. Worst case confiscate the gun, or sell out of state. Example- In the 80's Joe Poyer filled with BATF to import about 200 Aussie L!A1's. ATF approved this after receiving a sample. Guess what, they were real L1A1 uppers, w/o the safety sear, right pistol grip and selector full auto. Replacing (2) easily attainable parts and adding the 3rd will make a real machine gun (being a sear cut receiver). ATF realized this after the fact, tried to stop the sales. Poyer sued.. Guess what he did not go to jail for what would be 200 -thats 200 unregistered machine guns. What did happen is that he was allowed to sell his guns and the aft has a serial number range along with a letter attesting you can own it. This make these guns the most desirable L1A1's in America. So, no jail, not even confiscation, so there are exemptions to illegal guns if you followed the appropriate rules and paperwork.