SB387 "Public Safety - Untraceable Firearms" - The Ban on Private Firearm Making

[asdaven]

What if you already serialized your 80% builds with your own serial number and had it serialized to ATF specifications for manufacturers before you completed it? Are they requiring registration or just a serial number? Because an 80% isn't a firearm, you can have it serialized anywhere that does engraving until you complete it.

 

[DC-W]

Posting this update in MSI's litigation against Montgomery County's own ban here as relevant:

MoCo passes ghost gun bill

A case of mine is cited in the opinion! Cool. Sent from an undisclosed location.

www.mdshooters.com

Some new filings today on how the County's Bill 4-21 is further pre-empted by the State's enactment of SB387/HB425. MSI's response to MoCo's assertions that their bill doesn't conflict with those bills: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/documents?task=download.send&id=341&catid=4&m=0

Find everything toward the bottom of the case page here: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/counselor-s-corner/msi-v-montgomery-county

Further, a hearing on the County's Motion to Dismiss / Motion for Summary Judgment and MSI's Opposition and Motion for Summary Judgment is scheduled in this case for 5/23 at 10:00am. It will be held remotely. Here's that order: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/documents?task=download.send&id=323&catid=4&m=0

 

[cantstop]

What if you already serialized your 80% builds with your own serial number and had it serialized to ATF specifications for manufacturers before you completed it? Are they requiring registration or just a serial number? Because an 80% isn't a firearm, you can have it serialized anywhere that does engraving until you complete it.

If you are a firearms manufacturer, you are good to go. If you registered that firearm as an NFA item, you are OK. If you can show that you had no idea this law was passed, you are probably OK but may need to destroy it. Otherwise (in my non-lawyer reading of the law), your firearm is non-compliant and you could be in trouble.

 

[erwos]

Do we know of any current IPs that are serializing PMFs? Deciding whether to cut mine up or try to deal with serialization.

 

[whistlersmother]

Do we know of any current IPs that are serializing PMFs? Deciding whether to cut mine up or try to deal with serialization.

You have until March '23 to decide

 

[asdaven]

Double post

 

[asdaven]

If you are a firearms manufacturer, you are good to go. If you registered that firearm as an NFA item, you are OK. If you can show that you had no idea this law was passed, you are probably OK but may need to destroy it. Otherwise (in my non-lawyer reading of the law), your firearm is non-compliant and you could be in trouble.

I thought it was said that there is a provision to allow those who currently possess them to bring them into compliance? It's not as simple as filling out a 77R? If worse comes to worse, you just strip all the parts all the lower, buy a 100% lower and rebuild the gun on a legal lower. This is a Glock Magazine specific PCC AR lower not an AR15 lower.

 

[ironpony]

Does the NRA or NRA-ILA know about this law? a statement would be nice.

Maybe put up a reward for finding a manufacturer willing to put random hunks of material on their “I did that” books.

 

[DC-W]

Friends, this entire doc is worth a read, but particularly the last few pages (from 12 on). You may find the answers you seek.

https://bit.ly/3LnBqUx

 

[Bountied]

I'm still up in the air on what to do. I have an older gen1 P80 that does not have the metal strip in it. Is that a goner or can you engrave the frame anywhere? What is the definition of easily obliterated? I can easily obliterate a serial number on any gun.

 

[mvee]

Friends, this entire doc is worth a read, but particularly the last few pages (from 12 on). You may find the answers you seek.

https://bit.ly/3LnBqUx

This link gives me an error.

Notice​

Unauthorized access to Downloads.
Error! Either you tried to start downloading from an unauthorised resource or your browser did not send a referrer.

 

[ironpony]

This link gives me an error.

Notice​

Unauthorized access to Downloads.
Error! Either you tried to start downloading from an unauthorised resource or your browser did not send a referrer.

For what it’s worth it worked for me.

 

[DC-W]

This link gives me an error.

Notice​

Unauthorized access to Downloads.
Error! Either you tried to start downloading from an unauthorised resource or your browser did not send a referrer.

MSI v. Montgomery County (MoCo Cir.Ct.) - Plaintiffs’ Memorandum In Response To Defendant’s Submission Concerning HB 425 And SB 387 - Download Summary - Maryland Shall Issue®, Inc.

www.marylandshallissue.org

 

[Sundazes]

Friends, this entire doc is worth a read, but particularly the last few pages (from 12 on). You may find the answers you seek.

https://bit.ly/3LnBqUx

The link gives me an error as well, but your uploaded copy works.

I read it and still don’t know what we can do. It’s seem contradictory to it self. I get so lost in all the legalese I speak computers not law. So if some would please translate it, I would appreciate it. I am sure others in here have the same problem.

 

[DC-W]

The link gives me an error as well, but your uploaded copy works.

I read it and still don’t know what we can do. It’s seem contradictory to it self. I get so lost in all the legalese I speak computers not law. So if some would please translate it, I would appreciate it. I am sure others in here have the same problem.

The state provides two avenues to have firearms serialized by federally licensed dealers:

-FFL does it in line with what’s required of the federal rule. They use part of their FFL number to serialize the gun. Done.
Or
-FFL does it so that it is serialized with more personal info of the owner and then the firearm is registered with the state police.

Anything made post 3/1/23 must be registered with MSP within 30 days after it becomes a firearm.

This is explained on page three and after of a supplemental brief filed by MSI: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/...and-motion-for-expedited-hearing-and-decision

Engage Armament is so far one of the few capable and willing companies who would perform the engraving service, but for now, Montgomery County’s own law prohibits them or anyone from possessing any unserialized frames or receivers within the county. The state made a method for people to comply with the law and keep their stuff, but the county’s ordinance interferes with that. They claim it doesn’t: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/...f-senate-bill-387-and-house-bill-425-into-law

This lawsuit against Montgomery County is over whether or not the county bill 4-21 is pre-empted by state law. A hearing is scheduled for 5/23. More here: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/counselor-s-corner/msi-v-montgomery-county

 

[Sundazes]

Thanks Dan

 

[ironpony]

Yeah, thanks. That was easy.

 

[asdaven]

I wrote the MSP and asked and got pretty much the same answer. So I guess I have to add another serial number to the reciever. Was hoping just to register it with the serial number I had done before completing the reciever. The MSP basically said that they dont have to be a manufacturer but just has to be an FFL permitted by the ATF to do engraving. Alot of FFLs won't touch a homemade firearm or reciever or even want it in their store.

If anybody knows of anybody or any place that can do this service, keep us posted. I'm sure some businesses will come out of the woodwork or get the proper licensing to do this in response to this law.

Also don't know if anything has mentioned anything yet. Most everything has been about 80%s. But what about surplus parts kits and rewelds and those kinda of projects? I have a PPS-43 kit sitting here. Was going to turn it into a semi-auto carbine with 16" barrel but don't want to run amuck of this new law.

Thanks-

 

[Allen65]

But what about surplus parts kits and rewelds and those kinda of projects? I have a PPS-43 kit sitting here.

Wouldn't a re-weld already have a manufacturer-applied S/N that came with one of the parts?

 

[teratos]

Wouldn't a re-weld already have a manufacturer-applied S/N that came with one of the parts?

It’s not a “traceable” serial number. It was also decommissioned. I’d say gray area. Lots of serialized guns have no paper trail.