SB 1097 Likely rewritten to eliminate QHIC HQL Wear and Carry instructors

[babalou]

If Tim Otwell was my employee or in any way affiliated with my business he would be fired before the sun sets today.

Not only did he attempt to benefit his business or his employer through legislative fiat, he also proved that he's a statist bootlicker in the process.

ding ding ding! Winner!

 

[babalou]

Posted earlier in the thread:

Never had a partner in any company so not sure how easy to fire? I was a sole owner and closed the business because the owner was an ass.

yeah that damn N3uka. Seriously, hey brother.. hope you are well

 

[welder516]

Can someone give me the latest on the bill, is it done . I seen a earlier post saying some stuff passed and maybe it will be snuck in ?

Is Tim Otwell a member here under a different handle ?

 

[Doco Overboard]

I'm looking at what Rs wrote and I noticed that it was indicated that he had an instructor that was MSP which seems kind of past tense for being your partner.
And then he wanted to testify and all that.
Who is this guy Otwell Rs and where is he from?
If he's not working for you is his strategy to break out on his own or what?
No one I know seems to know very much about him.

 

[Sundazes]

Can someone give me the latest on the bill, is it done . I seen a earlier post saying some stuff passed and maybe it will be snuck in ?

Is Tim Otwell a member here under a different handle ?

Dave, the training part was removed. The felony part for stealing firearms remained as far as I understand it. That got passed through.
Comrade Smith said something to effect of there are other vehicles to move the training to. It may not be over.
I have no idea if he who shall not be named (otwell) is a member here. There is indeed another person else posting under the ATFT IP banner. That was the guy that was spamming the WC.
In their defense, they were offering a free HQL class to a certain "class" of folks.

 

[welder516]

My years of dealing with permits and even with lots of LE in many different ways . MSP officers really are not liking the fact that everyone can carry.
Now we have some wonderful officers (retired and otherwise) here at MDS that welcome freedom and the Constitution. My thoughts are more geared to management officers and the officers that align themselves with scummy politicians.
Most of past years the MSP has not been on the side of legal carry they are happy to put up a road block or three.

We all know of the states that run you thru a wringer and will make things hard and expensive

 

[Sundazes]

My years of dealing with permits and even with lots of LE in many different ways . MSP officers really are not liking the fact that everyone can carry.
Now we have some wonderful officers (retired and otherwise) here at MDS that welcome freedom and the Constitution. My thoughts are more geared to management officers and the officers that align themselves with scummy politicians.
Most of past years the MSP has not been on the side of legal carry they are happy to put up a road block or three.

We all know of the states that run you thru a wringer and will make things hard and expensive

You mean like the Peoples Repulik of MD...

 

[Bertfish]

Amendments aren't yet posted to the MGA site

 

[Jake4U]

SC just went constitutional carry. Some state's politicians trust their citizens others don't trust their subjects. The later likely fear their subjects for good reason.

 

[welder516]

You mean like the Peoples Repulik of MD...

Yep, and the more cost and the more hoops to jump thru . They are the tyrants, and one day when we give all the power over to the tyrants then maybe one day some will see the huge error in judgement.

I have been in the welding industry and could give two chits about saving the industry as stated in the gun industry. I am not going to be part of any taking of rights or adding cost to my customers . Let each and every business fend for itself. Don't work with the liberal politicians and you won't get stink on you.

 

[Blackstar65]

I'm an MPCTC-certified firearms instructor via my employer. I don't teach privately because I enjoy my time off. The requirements listed mirror the requirements placed on the Maryland LE firearms instructors. We must attend and pass a 40-hour general instructor course in addition to a 40-hour basic pistol instructor course. Patrol rifle new user is a minimum of two days and 350 rounds. My entry-level course was 40 hours. Shotgun new user is a minimum of 8 hours. RDS pistol is two days for new users and three for RDS instructors. All these classes are taken in addition to the 80 hours of training. We are also required to complete 4 hours of evaluated classroom instruction on firearms and 8 hours of firing line instruction. Recertification occurs every three years. The recertification process is not as time-consuming as the initial process. Sadly continuing education within your specific teaching specialty is not required

The instructor training requirements listed on page 4 are pretty much the same as what's required for LE instructors except with a self-defense spin. I think the instructors who were caught providing inadequate training are one of the reasons why this amendment was introduced. If this bill doesn't get squashed I would push to have the MPCTC provide the training for prospective instructors or require the local law enforcement agencies to provide the training. Currently, only civilians attached to law enforcement agencies are allowed to attend State or LE firearms instruction courses.
I don't think this bill will be the end of HQL and WCP instructors. I do think more LEOs who possess the certs will start to teach. I am not sure if it will solve the problem of instructors providing inadequate instruction.

 

[welder516]

I'm an MPCTC-certified firearms instructor via my employer. I don't teach privately because I enjoy my time off. The requirements listed mirror the requirements placed on the Maryland LE firearms instructors. We must attend and pass a 40-hour general instructor course in addition to a 40-hour basic pistol instructor course. Patrol rifle new user is a minimum of two days and 350 rounds. My entry-level course was 40 hours. Shotgun new user is a minimum of 8 hours. RDS pistol is two days for new users and three for RDS instructors. All these classes are taken in addition to the 80 hours of training. We are also required to complete 4 hours of evaluated classroom instruction on firearms and 8 hours of firing line instruction. Recertification occurs every three years. The recertification process is not as time-consuming as the initial process. Sadly continuing education within your specific teaching specialty is not required

The instructor training requirements listed on page 4 are pretty much the same as what's required for LE instructors except with a self-defense spin. I think the instructors who were caught providing inadequate training are one of the reasons why this amendment was introduced. If this bill doesn't get squashed I would push to have the MPCTC provide the training for prospective instructors or require the local law enforcement agencies to provide the training. Currently, only civilians attached to law enforcement agencies are allowed to attend State or LE firearms instruction courses.
I don't think this bill will be the end of HQL and WCP instructors. I do think more LEOs who possess the certs will start to teach. I am not sure if it will solve the problem of instructors providing inadequate instruction.

Problem is the government has not done well solving problems, now making problems they are great at. You have to ask yourself one question how many people have been hurt , injured or killed before this bill was introduced and there the answer is.
How many people have been killed from Federal policies , administration policies and local policies ... Tens of thousands have been killed and maimed from our government *****

 

[rbird7282]

Problem is the government has not done well solving problems, now making problems they are great at. You have to ask yourself one question how many people have been hurt , injured or killed before this bill was introduced and there the answer is.
How many people have been killed from Federal policies , administration policies and local policies ... Tens of thousands have been killed and maimed from our government *****

Exactly. I don’t trust the government for anything. Besides, there should be no training requirement whatsoever to get a carry permit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[welder516]

Exactly. I don’t trust the government for anything. Besides, there should be no training requirement whatsoever to get a carry permit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes sir, always more and more and we will make it better . F-that just let us kids alone

 

[Biggfoot44]

I'm an MPCTC-certified firearms instructor via my employer. I don't teach privately because I enjoy my time off.

It's out of sequence for my comments , so look below

I don't think this bill will be the end of HQL and WCP instructors. I do think more LEOs who possess the certs will start to teach. I am not sure if it will solve the problem of instructors providing inadequate instruction.

It won't be the end , but will be greatly reduced availability, and significantly higher expense .


You might indeed value your leisure time, and consider it priceless .

But as supply/ demand chases a limited availability product , and free market in action, the potential windfalls will will reach a point on the graph to tempt your professional colleagues .

Just throwing a number out of my butt of $5K per weekend . ( $ 300- ish now is going rate , to turn a profit . Overhead would be substantially similar . If $700 becomes the new normal....)

 

[miles71]

It's out of sequence for my comments , so look below




It won't be the end , but will be greatly reduced availability, and significantly higher expense .


You might indeed value your leisure time, and consider it priceless .

But as supply/ demand chases a limited availability product , and free market in action, the potential windfalls will will reach a point on the graph to tempt your professional colleagues .

Just throwing a number out of my butt of $5K per weekend . ( $ 300- ish now is going rate , to turn a profit . Overhead would be substantially similar . If $700 becomes the new normal....)

I don’t know of anyone teaching, esp full courses, every weekend but your point is valid. The more overhead causes an increase in price of the course.

TD

 

[Blackstar65]

It's out of sequence for my comments , so look below




It won't be the end , but will be greatly reduced availability, and significantly higher expense .


You might indeed value your leisure time, and consider it priceless .

But as supply/ demand chases a limited availability product , and free market in action, the potential windfalls will will reach a point on the graph to tempt your professional colleagues .

Just throwing a number out of my butt of $5K per weekend . ( $ 300- ish now is going rate , to turn a profit . Overhead would be substantially similar . If $700 becomes the new normal....)

I'd h

Problem is the government has not done well solving problems, now making problems they are great at. You have to ask yourself one question how many people have been hurt , injured or killed before this bill was introduced and there the answer is.
How many people have been killed from Federal policies , administration policies and local policies ... Tens of thousands have been killed and maimed from our government *****

I'm not arguing for it. I do think there needs to be some type of consumer protection though. Everybody and their momma is a firearms instructor. Some are excellent some are trash. Most students will not be able to tell the difference. I don't have an answer. My initial post was a suggestion on how to make this bill work for the private instructor industry if it going to pass.

 

[hillbilly grandpa]

I'm an MPCTC-certified firearms instructor via my employer. I don't teach privately because I enjoy my time off. The requirements listed mirror the requirements placed on the Maryland LE firearms instructors. We must attend and pass a 40-hour general instructor course in addition to a 40-hour basic pistol instructor course. Patrol rifle new user is a minimum of two days and 350 rounds. My entry-level course was 40 hours. Shotgun new user is a minimum of 8 hours. RDS pistol is two days for new users and three for RDS instructors. All these classes are taken in addition to the 80 hours of training. We are also required to complete 4 hours of evaluated classroom instruction on firearms and 8 hours of firing line instruction. Recertification occurs every three years. The recertification process is not as time-consuming as the initial process. Sadly continuing education within your specific teaching specialty is not required

The instructor training requirements listed on page 4 are pretty much the same as what's required for LE instructors except with a self-defense spin. I think the instructors who were caught providing inadequate training are one of the reasons why this amendment was introduced. If this bill doesn't get squashed I would push to have the MPCTC provide the training for prospective instructors or require the local law enforcement agencies to provide the training. Currently, only civilians attached to law enforcement agencies are allowed to attend State or LE firearms instruction courses.
I don't think this bill will be the end of HQL and WCP instructors. I do think more LEOs who possess the certs will start to teach. I am not sure if it will solve the problem of instructors providing inadequate instruction.

You say your certification is "via my employer." Am I to deduce from your statement that all the courses you completed were financially underwritten by your employer, and "on company time"?

 

[Biggfoot44]

I meant to communicate that the fixed expenses for classroom , range access , etc would be substantially similar .

The variable would be the human capital of instruction staff, with certain pieces of paper attached.

Private sector would represent an investment of $$ and time to aquire. That will be a sorting out to greatly reduce people who do so only occasionally vs doing it seriously ( time commitment, not quality) to work enough to amortize the up front investment. ( Moonlighting LE Instructors in position of minimum upfront expenses since day job provides the certs, could moonlight as much or as infrequently as they wish .)

Greatly reduced training slots , as the waves of renewals start , Permit Holders will have to either pay the New Normal ( and be grateful to get it ) or let expire .

 

[gtodave]

But it's important we now differentiate solidly between Atlantic and a private citizen who happens to be associated with them

No, there is no difference. See below:

Let me understand this. The person who authored the Suggestions works for or is part owner of Atlantic Tactical. A politician asked for this guys Suggestions, probably not as a private citizen but as a instructor at Atlantic Tactical. The guy then writes a letter with Our Suggestions are.. but the owner of AT says he doesn't represent AT??

He represents your business. You may not have authorized him to represent your business but he most certainly does. In my view that is why he was asked and why he stated Our suggestion, not my suggestions

Then Kenpo doesn't even say he disagrees with it and defends that it was done with Public Safety in mind? It gives the appearance of speaking on behalf of AT and Kenpo's response gives the appearance that he at least doesn't disagree with it.

100%

If Tim Otwell was my employee or in any way affiliated with my business he would be fired before the sun sets today.

Not only did he attempt to benefit his business or his employer through legislative fiat, he also proved that he's a statist bootlicker in the process.

Well, he is (apparently) retired MSP, sooo...