Saiga shotguns

[Johnnyeastside]

OnTarget,
What exactly do you want this Saiga to be? You only need to be compliant if you are modifying the gun taking out of "sporting purpose". The FCG's move the trigger group forward to the converted or original position. Most people do this to simplify and improve the FCG and improve the guns handling and ergonomics. If you are content with the full stock and 5 rnd mag, then you don't have to do anything. Look at pictures of stock S-12's and you'll see a space between the trigger guard and the magazine, the converted ones move the trigger guard into that space, and a pistol grip where the trigger guard use to be
Some of your questions seem to be kind of confused. Hope this clears it up a bit.
Check this out too:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=39651

 

[hole punch]

Thanks for the offer. I'm workig on getting all the parts first. I'll give you a shout when it's a go.

RIght on. Yeah, me too. I want to do the conversion on several Saigas, and I'm not sure which one to do first. I think the 12 gauge and here's why; I wanted to convert my Saiga-12 first, before fitting the drum, since I believe having the drum is considered intent to construct by the Bureau, and I want to keep things clean concerning 922(r). That's why I want to do the shotgun the winter, but I was thinking of tackling the .223 first and then I'll take what I learn from the .223 and apply that to the 12. I dunno, I've got a dozen projects going on at once and only so much time and money!

Saiga 12 Tromix trigger/hammer kits (and another brand) say,"...for a conversion where the trigger assembly is being moved forward." I'd just be putting it in for US parts (922r compliancy), so I really don't know what they're telling me. Moved forward?

OnTarget,
What exactly do you want this Saiga to be? You only need to be compliant if you are modifying the gun taking out of "sporting purpose". The FCG's move the trigger group forward to the converted or original position. Most people do this to simplify and improve the FCG and improve the guns handling and ergonomics. If you are content with the full stock and 5 rnd mag, then you don't have to do anything. Look at pictures of stock S-12's and you'll see a space between the trigger guard and the magazine, the converted ones move the trigger guard into that space, and a pistol grip where the trigger guard use to be
Some of your questions seem to be kind of confused. Hope this clears it up a bit.
Check this out too:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=39651

johnnyeastside covered this pretty well. once you compare photos of converted and uncoverted saigas you'll see how the trigger group has been shifted forward about 2 inches after the conversion.

 

[OnTarget]

RIght on. Yeah, me too. I want to do the conversion on several Saigas, and I'm not sure which one to do first. I think the 12 gauge and here's why; I wanted to convert my Saiga-12 first, before fitting the drum, since I believe having the drum is considered intent to construct by the Bureau, and I want to keep things clean concerning 922(r). That's why I want to do the shotgun the winter, but I was thinking of tackling the .223 first and then I'll take what I learn from the .223 and apply that to the 12. I dunno, I've got a dozen projects going on at once and only so much time and money!





johnnyeastside covered this pretty well. once you compare photos of converted and uncoverted saigas you'll see how the trigger group has been shifted forward about 2 inches after the conversion.

Johnnyeastside, hole punch, markp, boat... and all the others: Thanks for all your remarks, which have been helpful indeed! I must admit that I find 922r confusing as much as I try to move forward. Let me explain, if you will indulge me. Tapco sells the Intrafuse Saiga T6 Stock system (STK07160).It comes with a pistol grip which actually attached to the stock itself, not just behind the trigger where the receiver is.

http://www.tapco.com/products/saiga/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=159

Yesterday, I had a man that owns a company making Saiga 12 trigger guards tell me that the Tapco Intrafuse T6 stock installation does NOT make my Saiga 12 a conversion, which surprised me. After all, it has a pistol grip. Okay, then, I reasoned that the coming addition of a MD Arms 20 rd. drum would make the installation such that I would now have to be 922r compliant.
I thought I'd try and stick to 922r changes on the external part of the shotgun, so I ordered the K-Var handguard and ring. Moreover, I ordered a Krebs muzzle break/fire supressor (one unit). I really don't want to change the internal components at all, except that I do have a MD Arms V-plug that will also be used.
Now, I reason, maybe I should do a trigger conversion, perhaps, a Tromix. This counts for 3 US parts, I hear. Well, I think, then maybe I need to change the existing trigger guard to go along with the Tromix trigger conversion. I do want my US part count to be such that I will be able to use any magazine in the Saiga, even the smallest ones.
No parts have been ordered yet for trigger assembly or the trigger guard. Moreover, I have not yet ordered a gas piston (puck), say from Tapco.
Well folks, this is where I stand. Yes, I'm still confused as to where I'm going, not to mention the cost of the parts and, perhaps, installation fees. I have some mechanical abilities, but feel uncomfortable changing parts around in a firearm. It's not the same as experimenting with someting that can't be harmful.

 

[wilcam47]

i used this it takes you through step by step....only thing you take apart really is the trigger group...I used the same trigger guard and couple of rivets and a new trigger set...and put a pistol grip on it


http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

 

[OnTarget]

i used this it takes you through step by step....only thing you take apart really is the trigger group...I used the same trigger guard and couple of rivets and a new trigger set...and put a pistol grip on it


http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

That's a nice reference. Still looks like a lot of drilling and disassembly of the firearm parts. I love to fix things of all sorts. Also, I've taken many a computer apart and rebuilt it, but firearms, well, I'm restained/guarded. Maybe I'm just getting older and less venturesome.

 

[wilcam47]

it does seem like a lot at first but...in reality you are only drilling out a couple rivets and i put rivets back in for the trigger guard cutting a hole for the pistol grip block... and assembling the trigger group back with new trigger parts...and removing needless parts...

 

[rob-cubed]

And you really don't need to rivet the trigger guard back on. Just a couple of screws will hold it tight, and they will be well hidden.

Here's a set of YouTube tuts which does a pretty good job explaining the whole process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU96VbnSoTc

 

[OnTarget]

And you really don't need to rivet the trigger guard back on. Just a couple of screws will hold it tight, and they will be well hidden.

Here's a set of YouTube tuts which does a pretty good job explaining the whole process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU96VbnSoTc

I liked that YouTube video - the 1st that one explained the stock removal. Can I do all the trigger work and trigger guard after the conversion Tapco Intrafuse T6 stock is installed? Or must the stock be completely removed?
Getting theTapco T6 stock installed would give me a boost.

 

[Johnnyeastside]

Ok, I get it now. The stock you're looking at is for unconverted guns. Carolina Shooters Supply has a few different ones. They have a menu for stocks, Converted, or Factory Setup http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-STOCKS-dsh-SAIGA-FACTORY-SETUP/Categories These allow to use a pistol grip type stock without converting. They stick out behind the receiver instead of in the place of the trigger group. However, you would still need to get enough parts to be compliant with that. The stock would count as 1, a lot of times people use an aftermarket gas puck (Tapco, Twister, etc) just to get the parts count up.

 

[rob-cubed]

I liked that YouTube video - the 1st that one explained the stock removal. Can I do all the trigger work and trigger guard after the conversion Tapco Intrafuse T6 stock is installed? Or must the stock be completely removed?
Getting theTapco T6 stock installed would give me a boost.

It's an either/or scenario. The unconverted T6 PG/stock combo is made for Saigas that have their triggers in the rearward (imported) location. Once you move the trigger forward, there will be a huge gap in between the PG and the new trigger location and you'll have to get a new stock set (Tapco also makes a T6 and a SAW grip for that).

So if you are thinking about doing a conversion, I'd wait to buy a new stock.

 

[OnTarget]

Ok, I get it now. The stock you're looking at is for unconverted guns. Carolina Shooters Supply has a few different ones. They have a menu for stocks, Converted, or Factory Setup http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-STOCKS-dsh-SAIGA-FACTORY-SETUP/Categories These allow to use a pistol grip type stock without converting. They stick out behind the receiver instead of in the place of the trigger group. However, you would still need to get enough parts to be compliant with that. The stock would count as 1, a lot of times people use an aftermarket gas puck (Tapco, Twister, etc) just to get the parts count up.

You're hitting on it now. The actual stock I will be using is a Tapco Intrafuse T6 Stock System (STK07160) for the Saiga 12. The pistol grip that comes with it screws into the T6 plastic stock and NOT into the receiver itself. Even so, the pistol grip sits directly behing the trigger guard. Because the pistol grip fits directly behind the trigger guard, I do not need to change out the existing trigger guard or trigger assembly. See picture in link below:

http://tapco.com/products/saiga/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=159

However, I will definitely be using a MD Arms 20 rd. drum.
If this means adherence to 922r, because of above Tapco T6 stock and MD Arms 20 rd. drum, then the other US parts (already ordered) I will be installing are:
K-Var forearm with clip for forearm (US part)
Krebs muzzle break/flash supressor (US part)

If you still think I need more US count, then I could order the gas piston (puck), either Tapco, E-Tac Twister (GoGun), not knowing the best one to use. Some have not liked these replacements.
Let me know what you think please.

 

[gun papa]

I bought mine early when they were $269 at CDNN. Wish I would have bought 10 more. I have had little to no issues with birdshot. I converted mine myself. Easy.