SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[Atec]

seem to me also when i skimmed through it.. so its very good chance they get denied again..

I do not understand all the legal jumble wording , my only question how dam long can this go on for weeks , months , years?
When I got divorced , I was legally divorced.
When I get charged in court for a speeding ticket , its final ! I pay or whatever I need to do .
How the he11 can they ask for a stay on the grounds that where already denied. I do not get this !
Why would they be allowed to, why would the court system even entertain the idea !
I give up !

 

[Mr H]

I do not understand all the legal jumble wording , my only question how dam long can this go on for weeks , months , years?
When I got divorced , I was legally divorced.
When I get charged in court for a speeding ticket , its final ! I pay or whatever I need to do .
How the he11 can they ask for a stay on the grounds that where already denied. I do not get this !
Why would they be allowed to, why would the court system even entertain the idea !
I give up !

IMO???

Because it's "Constitutional Law", and is the core and fabric of all we hold dear.

I would much rather they get it right, than get it right now.

 

[gmhowell]

Count me as another who views this as more of the same old.

In addition, I thought the initial decision, at trial, was that G&R was vague and arbitrarily applied? If so, I haven't seen anywhere that that core issue was addressed.

But hands down, my favorite part was reference to English common law and statute prohibiting the bearing of arms. Guess what, you also needed a tax stamp from the crown to print a pamphlet or newspaper, you could be forced to quarter soldiers against your will, etc, etc. Here's a hint: we fought a couple of wars (or one long one depending on how you look at it) to gain independence from them. In the process, several documents were developed specifically to reject various things British. Among them, Declaration of Independence, the Federalist papers, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution of the United States. The latter includes the amendments. As far as our founding and thoughts on English common law, of particular interest are the first ten amendments.

Including the second.

 

[Inigoes]

I do not understand all the legal jumble wording , my only question how dam long can this go on for weeks , months , years?
When I got divorced , I was legally divorced.
When I get charged in court for a speeding ticket , its final ! I pay or whatever I need to do .
How the he11 can they ask for a stay on the grounds that where already denied. I do not get this !
Why would they be allowed to, why would the court system even entertain the idea !
I give up !

It's all procedural motivations.

If the permits start flowing Aug 7, and there is no blood in the streets; the states argument is undermined.

If the state does not appeal the stay, the state accepts Judge Legg's findings on the stay. Undermining their argument.

The state is being painted into a corner.

You know what happens when you corner a wild animal right?

 

[hooligan82]

I do not understand all the legal jumble wording , my only question how dam long can this go on for weeks , months , years?
When I got divorced , I was legally divorced.
When I get charged in court for a speeding ticket , its final ! I pay or whatever I need to do .
How the he11 can they ask for a stay on the grounds that where already denied. I do not get this !
Why would they be allowed to, why would the court system even entertain the idea !
I give up !

Two weeks

 

[Atec]

It's all procedural motivations.

If the permits start flowing Aug 7, and there is no blood in the streets; the states argument is undermined.

If the state does not appeal the stay, the state accepts Judge Legg's findings on the stay. Undermining their argument.
The state is being painted into a corner.

You know what happens when you corner a wild animal right?

Well I don't drink , but maybe I need to drink about 12 of them and start reading this thread all over again. It might make sense to me then.
I thought the State Appealed the stay today . Or I am as just dumb as a rock ! Its been a long day for me today . So I guess I don't understand
I am trying !

 

[hooligan82]

Well I don't drink , but maybe I need to drink about 12 of them and start reading this thread all over again. It might make sense to me then.
I thought the State Appealed the stay today . Or I am as just dumb as a rock ! Its been a long day for me today . So I guess I don't understand
I am trying !

Sorry, the another two weeks joke has been going on for a while. Judge Legg lifted his stay on the 24th effective in two weeks from that date. The 4th circuit can apply, or deny a stay request applied for on 7/27. There is also the possibility of the 4th, or the supreme court overturning Judge Leggs ruling. As I understand it the 4th is required to hear the case, but the supreme court can hear it or let the lower courts decision stand. Hope this clears things up, and once again sorry for the making light of the situation.

Edit: corrections made

 

[Inigoes]

Well I don't drink , but maybe I need to drink about 12 of them and start reading this thread all over again. It might make sense to me then.
I thought the State Appealed the stay today . Or I am as just dumb as a rock ! Its been a long day for me today . So I guess I don't understand
I am trying !

There are two things going on right now.

Judge Legg found the good and substantial reason unconstitutional, the state has already appealed to the CA4, with Gura's response due 7/30.

After Judge Legg made the opinion, a stay was put in place, because MD said blood would flow in the streets. A temporary stay was put into effect, while the state and the SAF hashed out if the state could win in the CA4. The state did not have a convincing argument, so the judge lifted the stay, meaning MD had to issue permits starting 8/7.

MD is presently appealing to get the stay reinstated, so it doesn't have to issue permits on 8/7.

 

[Atec]

There are two things going on right now.

Judge Legg found the good and substantial reason unconstitutional, the state has already appealed to the CA4, with Gura's response due 7/30.

After Judge Legg made the opinion, a stay was put in place, because MD said blood would flow in the streets. A temporary stay was put into effect, while the state and the SAF hashed out if the state could win in the CA4. The state did not have a convincing argument, so the judge lifted the stay, meaning MD had to issue permits starting 8/7.

MD is presently appealing to get the stay reinstated, so it doesn't have to issue permits on 8/7.

Thank You !
Now I understand , I guess I was just getting confused.
I am going to use you as my interpreter from here on !

 

[Inigoes]

Thank You !
Now I understand , I guess I was just getting confused.
I am going to use you as my interpreter from here on !

It's not just you.

The *cough* news media *cough* has done a horrible job explaining the events to the public.

 

[Jim Sr]

It's all procedural motivations.

If the permits start flowing Aug 7, and there is no blood in the streets; the states argument is undermined.

If the state does not appeal the stay, the state accepts Judge Legg's findings on the stay. Undermining their argument.

The state is being painted into a corner.

You know what happens when you corner a wild animal right?

O’Malley wants this over with?

The AG wants this over with?

They both want to save face?

They need to loose, with the 4th being the bad guy?
They both can use this result in there future political campaigning.

​

Just my 2¢

 

[Inigoes]

O’Malley wants this over with?

The AG wants this over with?

They both want to save face?

They need to loose, with the 4th being the bad guy?
They both can use this result in there future political campaigning.

​

Just my 2¢

For what it's worth, Owe'Malley and Gansler will have the stigma the rest of their political "Democrat" careers as the people who pushed the envelope to get the 2A adopted as a fundemental right outside the home.

This case can effectively kill their careers in the progressive realm.

 

[Patrick]

There are some new approaches here, but they are all aimed squarely at re-litigating the merits of the case itself. That is what the appeal is for.

I don't see a single word explaining how the district court abused their discretion. Nor do I see anything here addressing their public safety argument - they acknowledge fewer than 300 crimes over five years in a population the GAO just said was over 8 million. Do the math.

They are pinning their request on the 'novelty' of the case. As far as it goes, that is the best chance they got. Frankly, this will all come down to the judge(s) reviewing the request.

 

[Rossi357]

It's interesting how they go on and on about how their permitting scheme is necessary for public safety, and then on page 27 they say it isn't working.

"Maryland continues to suffer from a violent crime rate that is far too high. Baltimore consistenty ranks as one the ten most violent cities in the country."

 

[Rossi357]

Is there a link to the CA4 docket other than pacer?

 

[casmith09]

Is there a link to the CA4 docket other than pacer?

http://marylandshallissue.org/share/4CAStay.pdf

 

[AliasNeo07]

IMO???

Because it's "Constitutional Law", and is the core and fabric of all we hold dear.

I would much rather they get it right, than get it right now.

Well said. Exactly.

It's all procedural motivations.

If the permits start flowing Aug 7, and there is no blood in the streets; the states argument is undermined.

Yep. I just pray some idiot with a permit doesn't make us look bad.


I'm not particularly enthusiastic about this going to CA4 and/or SCOTUS. I would much rather stick with the current decision. Why are people here so excited to get it before CA4 and SCOTUS?

The obvious answer would be to solidify the second amendment applying outside the home....
But if we lose, we lose BIG.

 

[Hit and Run]

Well said. Exactly.

Yep. I just pray some idiot with a permit doesn't make us look bad.

I'm not particularly enthusiastic about this going to CA4 and/or SCOTUS. I would much rather stick with the current decision. Why are people here so excited to get it before CA4 and SCOTUS?

The obvious answer would be to solidify the second amendment applying outside the home....
But if we lose, we lose BIG.

But if we win, the whole country wins big...

 

[Samuel]

Because it is inevitable.

The sooner SCOTUS rules the sooner we can either move to the next issue, or begin the process of constitutional amendment to overturn the ruling if need be.

 

[Dogabutila]

There is honestly no serious way we can lose given a certain level of judicial integrity. Why not go to SCOTUS?