SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[Inigoes]

This isn't shooting fish in a barrel. This is shooting a dead whale stranded on the beach.

Be careful.

Shooting it such a large target, you can always lose your point of aim.

 

[Klunatic]

Wow. Weak.

They admit that there is no relationship between crime and shall-issue, but then go ahead and toss out some tired (and refuted) numbers anyway.

Public Safety:

The state does itself in with some of these arguments. They use the Violence Policy Center "CCW Killers" numbers, which are suspect in myriad ways. They quote 270 murders between May 2007 and now. That's five years or 54 killing a year. Do some basic math and we see that (270 / 5) / 6,800,000 permit holders over that period is a whopping crime rate of ... 0.00000794%. If we assumed VPC missed half of all murders we are still at 0.00001588%. Hardly the stuff nightmares are made of.

.

They even mention the shooting at John Hopkins by a VA permit holder. What BS, the fact that this guy did not have a MD permit, by their logic should have prevented the murder/suicide. Hope Gura throws that back at them.

 

[T-Man]

Man, I agree, that is one weak Motion....Yippee.

Permit holders would be harmed by the State being forced to grant them permits. That makes sense.

The Court has already ruled that the G& S requirement has no relationship to public safety....so they argue that Md Police thinks there is a relationship to public safety and that should be a good reason...Judge is going to like that one.

I love the offer though, grant a stay in general and we will process Woollards permit. What a bunch of punks.

 

[aberforth]

This is shooting a dead whale stranded on the beach.

With dynamite:

 

[Mr H]

How absolutely absurd to suggest that citizens can protect themselves by carrying long guns. Unbelievable.

-Alex

err...umm...

"Well, THAT'S already legal, so go with that, OK?"

 

[Inigoes]

err...umm...

"Well, THAT'S already legal, so go with that, OK?"

Ask the AG the question yourself and you get a competely different answer:

AG response to Long Gun Carry.pdf

 

[CypherPunk]

One particular category of individuals who would be impacted includes those
whose good and substantial reason is employment-related, such as security guards,
armored car drivers, private detectives, special police officers, and people who need to
transport valuable goods for their businesses.2 Id. ¶ 9. Because some of these individuals
are required to have a permit as a condition of their employment, revocation of permits
could lead to a loss of that employment. Id. ¶ 10. Similarly, in the absence of a stay,
MSP would not necessarily know which permit recipients fell into other categories of
individuals currently eligible for permits, including those who obtain permits because of
a demonstrable need for personal protection. Id. ¶ 13. For these individuals, the absence
of a permit pending the reapplication process could have safety implications. Id. ¶ 14.

...Finally, a failure to stay the injunction pending appeal would adversely affect the processing of permit applications for individuals who have good and substantial reason. MSP resources for processing permit applications are already strained, and would
become much more so if a large number of new permit applications need to be processed.

Good news AG Gansler...

Since “The right’s existence is all the reason he needs”, the bureaucratic burdens and redundant licensing schemes previously imposed upon security guards, armored car drivers, etc, will be eliminated as open carry is a constitutional right. Alternatively, they can carry long guns as suggested by AG Gansler

As a bonus, there is no need for the MD State Police to "add a new position" in order to accommodate the unreasonable request that MD State Police stop infringing upon citizens’ rights. That’s great news in the face of MoM’s budget cuts. We can realize further savings by abolishing the “Handgun Review Board”, their staff and their budget.

 

[OnTarget]

This one really gets me. To mention a case that is still pending in trial court seems at the very least unprofessional if not down right unethical for a lawyer. Here you have an attorney general stating someone is guilty on a case where he hasn't even seen the evidence.

Excellent point!

 

[esqappellate]

With dynamite:

That clip is *so freaking funny*

 

[esqappellate]

Good news AG Gansler...

Since “The right’s existence is all the reason he needs”, the bureaucratic burdens and redundant licensing schemes previously imposed upon security guards, armored car drivers, etc, will be eliminated as open carry is a constitutional right. Alternatively, they can carry long guns as suggested by AG Gansler

As a bonus, there is no need for the MD State Police to "add a new position" in order to accommodate the unreasonable request that MD State Police stop infringing upon citizens’ rights. That’s great news in the face of MoM’s budget cuts. We can realize further savings by abolishing the “Handgun Review Board”, their staff and their budget.

That is what is telling about the brief. The proffered harms are largely of MD's own making and largely within their own control.

 

[Patrick]

If you could have framed better arguments, we thank you for not going over to The Dark Side. Personally, I hope my tax dollars will not fund better lawyers.

May success attend your shooting, and may bugs find you singularly distasteful.

Thanks. Didn't go shooting tonight because the wife said waiting would mean we could go together tomorrow morning. She wants to play with the Kahr and the shotguns. The big ones (she is tiny). We played with the kids in the backyard and took a nice walk instead.

The state has a lousy hand and they apparently know it.

 

[2ndsupporter]

Footnote 2 states that there are 892 carry permits issued for g&s! Seems like the "chilling effect" to me. The stupid arrogant bastards just stepped on their own dicks and admitted to restraining civil rights. This seems to me like an insignificant percentage of the whole.

 

[Patrick]

I am very leery of drinking our Kool Aid and I am trying hard not to, but I gotta say about their brief: That's it? That's the best they can do?...

Before your time here I was considered Gansler's cheerleader, giving the AG team a lot of credit when some said it was not due. And I still maintain that their delay of this case was masterful - it was filed with all the others and ends up at the back of the pile. Considering their competition (NY, CA, etc.), that's skill.

But the ruling here was pretty tight. I only see one or two real areas to challenge on appeal, and they are not all that material to the end game. I think the state just has a lousy hand to play.

I'm perfectly cool with that.

 

[esqappellate]

Before your time here I was considered Gansler's cheerleader, giving the AG team a lot of credit when some said it was not due. And I still maintain that their delay of this case was masterful - it was filed with all the others and ends up at the back of the pile. Considering their competition (NY, CA, etc.), that's skill.

But the ruling here was pretty tight. I only see one or two real areas to challenge on appeal, and they are not all that material to the end game. I think the state just has a lousy hand to play.

I'm perfectly cool with that.

I am too. This brief brings it home how lousy their hand is. BTW: Giving the devil his due is not being a cheerleader -- it is being smart. Drinking your own Kool Aid is nearly always fatal.

 

[gmhowell]

Gansler et al. are continuing this only to drag out the process until legislative 'fixes' can be implemented. Expect some nasty stuff in the next GA session.

 

[Dklo]

Anyone see the similarity between this document and the testimony from the MSP Lt back in Feb? Im referring to the one that Delegate Mike ripped to shreds...

Basically the state is saying if we dont get a stay people will want permits and want to carry. Bad things MAY happen. We dont know what, but we will know it when we see it.

 

[Inigoes]

Gansler et al. are continuing this only to drag out the process until legislative 'fixes' can be implemented. Expect some nasty stuff in the next GA session.

We should have our permits by then

 

[Patrick]

Gansler et al. are continuing this only to drag out the process until legislative 'fixes' can be implemented. Expect some nasty stuff in the next GA special session.

Fixed that, but wish we didn't have to.

 

[Inigoes]

Fixed that, but wish we didn't have to.

You not the only one upset.

Owe'malley called for the special session on the budget during the legislative session and he didn't get what he asked for.

A budget was passed and he did not like it, Sine Die came and went.

 

[jfox]

Fixed that, but wish we didn't have to.

All good points. But,

1. Not sure we should critique this too much more. Too many smart minds here. It's a public forum, and the state still has another opportunity to reply to SAF's reply.

2. The big issue is what they try to do in Special Session. It's coming. For sure and on the basis of budget issues.