SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[X-Factor]

A win at this point would be hard, but still possible. The Fourth made some progress forwarding recognition of the right in Chester, but then backed off and said they did not want to rule on the existence of a public right in Masciandaro. They did not outright tell their lower courts to vote "no" on the question, but the authors definitely came close.

So a district judge could potentially rule our way under the premise that the Fourth has not actually ruled on the question. That means it goes straight to Richmond for a fight. Getting a stay should require the government to demonstrate actual damage (per Chester and now Ezell even though it is not directly applicable). That would be hard.

Win, lose or draw at the District level, we have a lot of cases on their way up the chain right now. If Woollard disappeared from court dockets tomorrow, the tide would continue to roll in. We will get our day in court one way or the other.

Keep in mind that there are two parties asking the Supreme Court to answer the question right now. That puts them well ahead of this case.

We might get a feel on the 21st on where our Woollard case is in the mind of the judge. If he is having heartburn on some issue, we should see that.


EDIT: To be clear, I have always said this is a likely loser in the District Court and nothing in recent times has changed that. If anything, a win is harder now than it was early this year. I just don't want to be handing out false hope.

I know you have always said that, but given the strength of Woolard I fail to see WHY. Either way, we will win one way or another; I just hope sooner rather than later.

 

[Patrick]

If the judge does a categorical analysis we are more likely to win. If he hangs his hat on 4th Circuit (confused) jurisprudence and standards-based approached (scrutiny), we will almost surely lose.

Relying on standards to evaluate a right that has yet to be recognized is instant fail, which is why the other side keeps pushing that path.

 

[Al Norris]

Of course, there's now a new wrinkle to contend with.

Expect a flurry of briefs in most all these (carry) cases, adding Ezell as a supplemental authority: If a right to training (firearms proficiency) stands implicated by the core right of self defense, then where does actual carry stand? Just as the right to keep arms stands at the center, so to does the right to bear arms.

 

[Storm40]

If a right to training (firearms proficiency) stands implicated by the core right of self defense, then where does actual carry stand? Just as the right to keep arms stands at the center, so to does the right to bear arms.

if it is held that training is at the core of the 2nd amendment, there is no way that you can exclude "bear" - which is plainly enumerated in the text vs. training which is not.

 

[pcfixer]

Originally Posted by Al Norris
If a right to training (firearms proficiency) stands implicated by the core right of self defense, then where does actual carry stand? Just as the right to keep arms stands at the center, so to does the right to bear arms.

Just like 1st Ammendment on Free speech and trying to ban library's or speech training!

if it is held that training is at the core of the 2nd amendment, there is no way that you can exclude "bear" - which is plainly enumerated in the text vs. training which is not.

I can't help but wonder if SC will plainly enumerate both open and concealed carry in public & outside the home as a fundamental right.

 

[Storm40]

I can't help but wonder if SC will plainly enumerate both open and concealed carry in public & outside the home as a fundamental right.

My guess is that either open or concealed carry can be banned but not both and the open (that is, not banned) option must be available with minimum restrictions (low fees, little to no wait times, available to the average law abiding citizen). Further, I imagine that the manner of carry will explicitly require that the weapon be immediately operable in an emergency.

 

[Inigoes]

10 more days

 

[SkunkWerX]

10 more days

Need just a tad bit more popcorn.

 

[swinokur]

A Jolly Time was had by all

 

[Patrick]

Y'all know that the AG's response to the Williams cert petition is due this week on the 15th, right...?

Not sure what we're waiting on over here. What did I forget?

 

[paulstitz]

A hearing is scheduled 7/21/2011 unless that has changed now.

 

[krucam]

Y'all know that the AG's response to the Williams cert petition is due this week on the 15th, right...?

Not sure what we're waiting on over here. What did I forget?

A hearing is scheduled 7/21/2011 unless that has changed now.

No change to Woollard Hearing, 7/21 is correct.

MD AG Response to Williams Petition, 7/15.

US AG Response to Masciandaro WAS due 7/25, they however waived that responsibility.

I believe SD Response to Peruta brief is due 7/22 in the 9th Ckt.

That is all...carry on...

 

[rambling_one]

No change to Woollard Hearing, 7/21 is correct.

MD AG Response to Williams Petition, 7/15.

US AG Response to Masciandaro WAS due 7/25, they however waived that responsibility.

I believe SD Response to Peruta brief is due 7/22 in the 9th Ckt.

That is all...carry on...

I'd be lost without you and Patrick...muchas gracias!

 

[Inigoes]

No change to Woollard Hearing, 7/21 is correct.

MD AG Response to Williams Petition, 7/15.

US AG Response to Masciandaro WAS due 7/25, they however waived that responsibility.

I believe SD Response to Peruta brief is due 7/22 in the 9th Ckt.

I feel so optimistic after ezell, I went and ordered another carry gun

 

[Boondock Saint]

I'd be lost without you and Patrick...muchas gracias!

 

[fightinbluhen51]

No change to Woollard Hearing, 7/21 is correct.

MD AG Response to Williams Petition, 7/15.

US AG Response to Masciandaro WAS due 7/25, they however waived that responsibility.

I believe SD Response to Peruta brief is due 7/22 in the 9th Ckt.

That is all...carry on...

Oh damn...have I been a slacker and out of the loop. Masciandaro was filed for cert to SCOTUS too (memory sucks lately, but that was the 4th Circuit decision that kinda screwed over Chester correct)?

 

[Abacab]

So wait, when are we expecting a decision?

 

[krucam]

Oh damn...have I been a slacker and out of the loop. Masciandaro was filed for cert to SCOTUS too (memory sucks lately, but that was the 4th Circuit decision that kinda screwed over Chester correct)?

Correct...all the good Karma felt after Chester was negated with Judge Wilkinson's ass-hattery in Masciandaro. This one needs fixing....

So wait, when are we expecting a decision?

For Woollard v. Sheridan at the MD District, Aug/Sept would be reasonable given the events happening throughout the Country. We can hopefully be done with Woollard at District before either of our 2 cases at One First (Williams, Masciandaro) have Cert granted, it that's to be the case, in the Oct-Dec time frame.

As Patrick mentioned, a Categorical analysis (ala Heller, Ezell) and we win, otherwise we're likely headed to Richmond (4th Ckt) on Appeal.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Correct...all the good Karma felt after Chester was negated with Judge Wilkinson's ass-hattery in Masciandaro. This one needs fixing....



For Woollard v. Sheridan at the MD District, Aug/Sept would be reasonable given the events happening throughout the Country. We can hopefully be done with Woollard at District before either of our 2 cases at One First (Williams, Masciandaro) have Cert granted, it that's to be the case, in the Oct-Dec time frame.

As Patrick mentioned, a Categorical analysis (ala Heller, Ezell) and we win, otherwise we're likely headed to Richmond (4th Ckt) on Appeal.

So, with the petition for cert to SCOTUS, does that moot Gansler's use of it in his arguments against Woollard?

Also, I guess Masciandaro got himself a new attorney, or the old attorney thought it was better to go directly to SCOTUS rather than ask for an en banc review?

Sorry, I'll hop over and get caught up on that thread...

 

[MD=What 2nd Amendment?]

So wait, when are we expecting a decision?

If we do get any type of ruling that goes in our favor on 7/21, Maryland will immediately appeal. I don't see anything happening until next year that could actually force Maryland into shall issue unless our legislators get their heads out of their asses and change the state to shall issue before SCOTUS does it for them.