Rifle marksmanship for our Soldiers?

[Biggfoot44]

Likewise shooting/ handlpoading partner #1's sons until recently with NC NG (multiple deployments each) qualified @ 25yds. Luckilly Dad tought them growing up ( with 200yd range in the yard.)

 

[Kilroy]

Instead of practicing marksmanship, we spend our training time doing anti-discrimination against gay people (2 hours last year), don't rape drunk girls (countless hours), don't drink and drive (countless hours), don't leak sensitive information (hours), don't watch porn or download stuff onto government computers (too many hours), don't be a moron, be nice to people, etc. If I had spent half of this time on the range, I'd be an amazing shooter. Total, I've shot 100 rounds of free .mil ammo during my entire career, but I've been told not to rape drunk girls while drunk driving thousands of times. Priorities are all jacked up in today's military training.

 

[Ski169]

Instead of practicing marksmanship, we spend our training time doing anti-discrimination against gay people (2 hours last year), don't rape drunk girls (countless hours), don't drink and drive (countless hours), don't leak sensitive information (hours), don't watch porn or download stuff onto government computers (too many hours), don't be a moron, be nice to people, etc. If I had spent half of this time on the range, I'd be an amazing shooter. Total, I've shot 100 rounds of free .mil ammo during my entire career, but I've been told not to rape drunk girls while drunk driving thousands of times. Priorities are all jacked up in today's military training.

Hell yeah Brother. Couldn't agree with you more. Last drill weekend, more b.s. training which consisted of the same crap listed above which was regurgitated to us from computer based training program the air force mandates. Yet no one qualifies with a weapon unless they are within 90 days of a deployment. This is totally unacceptable. I hope if anyone deploys and you are on a good sized air base, that it won't get over run. Unless you are in a particular career field in the air force, marksmanship is non existent. There are a few exceptions to this but not many. Remember, don't sexually assault drunk girls while drunk driving without your seatbelt on and without a reflective belt.

 

[Bart_man]

I wish to officially thank MDS members Nanook and FA19hooker for creating my addiction and for more marksmanship training than a decade of Naval Service got me.

and MDS members JSW and GunConnection for teaching me stuff about being my own Armorer.

.,.,. and I guess Gun Connection, JSW, FivePointStar for being drug dealers to my addiction.

 

[0331]

I don't want to sound like a jerk...
But ammo is expensive. It goes to the guys who actually need it (active duty, infantry, or those that use a rifle, not a pen or wrench in their MOS). And even us infantry guys don't spend all day shooting either. If your unit is involved in an actual training cycle for a deployment, you get better training and more ammo. For the most part, your training is focused on what you actually do in your job.
Sadly, combat deaths don't make front page news anymore. Things like mental illness, PTSD, alcoholism, drug abuse, drunk driving, date rape, etc, are the BIG issues that make front page news for our military. Prevention of these things is a priority for all commands or units. The folks in charge who mandate these classes care what the public thinks of our military, and I want to believe they genuinely care for our welfare too. I've sat through countless hours of these classes, bored out of my mind, but I understand they are there for a legit reason...

 

[Fox123]

Hell yeah Brother. Couldn't agree with you more. Last drill weekend, more b.s. training which consisted of the same crap listed above which was regurgitated to us from computer based training program the air force mandates. Yet no one qualifies with a weapon unless they are within 90 days of a deployment. This is totally unacceptable. I hope if anyone deploys and you are on a good sized air base, that it won't get over run. Unless you are in a particular career field in the air force, marksmanship is non existent. There are a few exceptions to this but not many. Remember, don't sexually assault drunk girls while drunk driving without your seatbelt on and without a reflective belt.

Yep our schedule is bogged down with this nonsensical check in the box computer based training, not that you would have a job to do or any mission based training/operations. But I guess that would require a real mission to perform.

 

[damosan]

It usually surprises people that don't have military experience when I explain to them that most Marines don't use handguns.

I don't know why this surprises people. When I was in the Army I was trained on everything BUT a handgun.

D.

 

[William B]

I don't know why this surprises people. When I was in the Army I was trained on everything BUT a handgun.

D.

I was issued a pistol and still didn't receive any formal training on it. In fact, the first time I got to fire it was during an Iraq deployment. During this range session the trigger spring broke and I found out that the barrel was worn out as well Good thing I never had to fire it when lives were on the line.

 

[racinghoss]

No, but not everyone is saddled with an M4 either, the standard rifle for the Marines is the M16A4 with a 1 in 7 inch twist 20 inch barrel, if I remember correctly, and you're right, that extra barrel length makes a hell of a difference. I never suggested that the M4 was capable of making decent hits at 500 yards.

So could a Marine with a standard M16A4 firing mk262 mod 1 ammunition make a kill at 500 yards, I'd bet money on it.

Mark

Absolutely . Especially if he has a second or three to prepare for the shot. If he has time, he can make several shots like that from a single magazine.

Myself and several members of my platoon could place 10/10 rounds into a group that would fit on the bottom of a 5lb coffee can from 500 yards with an M16A2 (no optics). Granted, that was on a range.

If we could do it, then lots of Marines could do it too. It happens every day on the qual range. And we did it with standard NATO ball ammo.

 

[Chainsaw]

I just happened on this...

I see someone had asked awhile back about Appleseed doing military shoots.

I was one one of the Appleseed instructors that spent 4 days with the Spartans, soldiers of the 3rd Combat Brigade, 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum, NY before their latest deployment to Afghanistan.

Their colonel had read the data that the engagements in Afghanistan were often beyond what the average soldier is prepared for. One of our senior instructors is a decorated sniper formally under his command. He basically said that he's got a bunch of friends in this group called Appleseed that would be willing to come and show his soldiers how to confidently engage targets at 500 yards and significantly increase their 1st round hits at all distances... on their dime.

We went for 4 days. The 1st two were exactly a civilian Appleseed, history and all. The 2nd two were spent on the 500 yrd range working on building confidence and getting the dope on their different sighting systems.

By the end of it the very worst of the group was happily wacking 500 yard "D" targets.

Our soldiers have the equipment and motivation to be excellent marksmen, though they seem to be stuck in a system that no longer puts much value on it.