Regulated or Not?

[gmkoh]

With the exemption of the colt sporter Hbar from the regulated list, and the what seems to be almost universal (and supported by the MSP) interpretation that all or at least some AR15 type HBARS are therefore exempted (not regulated), Then is a Rock River Arms NM LAR15 (20" heavy barrel") non regulated?

I ask because I have one on the way and so far 2 FFLS have said they consider it regulated.

Are there any FFLS who would not treat the LAR15 NM as regulated and who are accepting transfers?

 

[A1Uni]

This?

http://www.rockriverarms.com/?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=226

Definitely cash and carry.

 

[-Z/28-]

Any AR15 rifle with a heavy profile barrel is cash and carry. I believe there is a statement from MSP on this.

 

[gmkoh]

This?

http://www.rockriverarms.com/?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=226

Definitely cash and carry.

Yes, that's the one- the A4.

 

[Vile Shadow]

What 2 dealers are stupid enough to consider that regulated?

So the rest of us will know to go elsewhere.

 

[gmkoh]

Actually, both are good guys, and both are doing "on time" release and did all they could to get peoples' purchases out to them as soon as possible. I don't think stupid has anything to do with it- there is too much vagueness in the law, too much room for interpretation for me to make a criticism.

 

[L0gic]

It is always good to check with a dealer on a specific firearm that is commonly believed to be unregulated to make sure they too believe it is a cash and carry affair. At the very least it is common courtesy, but I just suggest getting it in writing via email before you finalize shipment.

It is, however, entirely, mind numbingly irritating to have a dealer tell you the rifles you are having shipped in are unregulated only to get there and do the paperwork and they changed their mind to "regulated" because they want to be on the "safe side" now that they have your guns and won't contact MSP to clarify their unregulated status or ship them to a more knowledgeable FFL without charging you their $75 transfer fee + shipping costs. Talking from experience on my former FFL

 

[fred2207]

It is always good to check with a dealer on a specific firearm that is commonly believed to be unregulated to make sure they too believe it is a cash and carry affair. At the very least it is common courtesy, but I just suggest getting it in writing via email before you finalize shipment.

It is, however, entirely, mind numbingly irritating to have a dealer tell you the rifles you are having shipped in are unregulated only to get there and do the paperwork and they changed their mind to "regulated" because they want to be on the "safe side" now that they have your guns and won't contact MSP to clarify their unregulated status or ship them to a more knowledgeable FFL without charging you their $75 transfer fee + shipping costs. Talking from experience on my former FFL

There is more money in it for the FFL's who treat an unregulated firearm transfere as regulated... IMO, being on the safe side or being knowledgeable has nothing to do with it.

 

[matt]

There is more money in it for the FFL's who treat an unregulated firearm transfere as regulated... IMO, being on the safe side or being knowledgeable has nothing to do with it.

That so?

Safe space is free?
MD checks are free?
Phone calls are free?

 

[fred2207]

That so?

Safe space is free?
MD checks are free?
Phone calls are free?

I'm sure there is a calculated cost and profit margin for all three...

 

[Gryphon]

With the exemption of the colt sporter Hbar from the regulated list, and the what seems to be almost universal (and supported by the MSP) interpretation that all or at least some AR15 type HBARS are therefore exempted (not regulated), Then is a Rock River Arms NM LAR15 (20" heavy barrel") non regulated?

I ask because I have one on the way and so far 2 FFLS have said they consider it regulated.

Are there any FFLS who would not treat the LAR15 NM as regulated and who are accepting transfers?

The Colt "Sporters", or Match Targets, with HBAR, do not have flash suppressors or bayonet lugs. That could be were the concern comes from?

 

[L0gic]

There is more money in it for the FFL's who treat an unregulated firearm transfere as regulated... IMO, being on the safe side or being knowledgeable has nothing to do with it.

The profit made by lying to one customer are lost when that customer lets others know how you treat them and your reputation is shot and other potential customers shop elsewhere.

 

[erwos]

What 2 dealers are stupid enough to consider that regulated?

So the rest of us will know to go elsewhere.

Just so you know: the MSP, in the past, have told FFLs that they only HBARs that are unregulated are the ones with fixed stocks. Just so you know...

 

[rob-cubed]

Find an FFL that agrees it is unregulated.

All HBARs should be unregulated but each FFL is free to decide how they will sell it. Some don't sell as cash and carry if the specific "Colt HBAR Sporter" brand requirement is not met per the regulated MD list. Make the argument that all HBARs are created equal, or take your business elsewhere if they disagree.

 

[Pinecone]

The Colt "Sporters", or Match Targets, with HBAR, do not have flash suppressors or bayonet lugs. That could be were the concern comes from?

Not true.

Only those made during the Federal ban period are missing the flash suppressors and/or bayonet lugs.

I have an HBAR Sporter, cash and carry, that has the flash suppressor but no bayonet lug. It was made and purchased in the Federal ban period.

People get worried because the MD regulated list says AR-15s and "copies and imitations." But the HBAR exemption does not.

BUT, wording was added at teh top of the regulated list, covering ALL items on the list, that mentioned "copies and imitations."

This is because, with the list was made, they did cover the copies and imitations of the basic AR, but there were no HBARs other than the Colt. They later added the "copies and imitations" wording to the entire list after someone figured out that if you changed the name, it was not longer on the list.

 

[IGOR455]

i have read the law numerous times as late as tonight. teh law states that only colt match target hbar is excempt. i have not seen and exemption from msp and if anyopne has such a thing i would love to read it. our store is only using thelaw as written. like i said if i could see a copy i would love to have it

 

[erwos]

i have read the law numerous times as late as tonight. teh law states that only colt match target hbar is excempt. i have not seen and exemption from msp and if anyopne has such a thing i would love to read it. our store is only using thelaw as written. like i said if i could see a copy i would love to have it

You need to read the top part of the section, where it says "and their copies". That applies to everything in the list, including the exceptions.

 

[Chaplain America]

Related question:

Does the definition of "HBAR" only pertain the the barrel's profile, such that any barrel that tapers is excluded?

Rephrase... can a M4 profile barrel be considered an HBAR, perhaps due to its material (ie, literal "weight"), or are M4 profile and HBAR mutually exclusive.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jvegas]

Related question:

Does the definition of "HBAR" only pertain the the barrel's profile, such that any barrel that tapers is excluded?

Rephrase... can a M4 profile barrel be considered an HBAR, perhaps due to its material (ie, literal "weight"), or are M4 profile and HBAR mutually exclusive.

Thanks in advance.

It's not weight it's the profile. Not
Pencil barrel and not a govt profile with cut out.

 

[Pinecone]

In general, if no part of the barrel is thinner than where the gas block mounts, it should be an HBAR.

The standard AR barrel profile has the barrel thinner under the handguard to reduce weight.

M4 and others also have the thin portion to mount the M203 grenade launcher, so two thin areas.