Regarding the VA rally from somebody with experience with VA "protest control"

[Steve_Zissou]

I do agree more should be done to paint the 2A community in a better light. Advocating borderline extremism does not help any cause. If they are trying to portray gun owners as dangerous now then I can’t imagine how a bunch of people showing up at their family gatherings will help.

Yeah, that's nothing but retarded fedposting ********.

Those tactics only work for the left because they have the entire media machine looking the other way while they harass the opposition, while the legal/judicial establishment has their backs, law enforcement included, and refuses to arrest or charge them for stuff like that. Anyone on the right who so much as thinks of trying the same tactics is asking to get Charlottesville'd hard.

The only way to beat a supermajority is through demography, and that's going to involve tactical retreats to "friendly territory" where 2A advocates have enough numbers and political clout to elect officials who will look after their rights, as every "sanctuary county" in VA is currently doing. If you can't beat them in Annapolis, then beat them on your own home turf through the power of localized government at the county level.

To that end, it's an absolute shame that this state doesn't have proper, legislatively independent towns.

 

[teratos]

He is right, there has to be a better way to fight for our rights. I don’t advocate stalking and harassment but if there were more celebrities willing to post videos shooting and talking about positive things firearm related It would change a lot of minds.

The Democratic super majority is like honey badger.

Well, if you get shot dead... you kinda prove the 2A's point. The hard way.

The idea isn’t to die for your Country, it’s to make some other poor bastard die for his.

 

[Cruacious]

The idea isn’t to die for your Country, it’s to make some other poor bastard die for his.

Exactly. Probably could have phrased it better but the point stands. Threatening legislators with violence and disruption is only going to make matters worse. What's more, they may vote against your cause out of sheer spite.

You can try to convince them. You can sue them into the ground. You can even work your buns off to evict them from office during the next election. But once you cross the line of civility, you've lost the moral high ground and can see yourself being targeted by people of both sides with major consequences for your deeds.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

If you want to antagonize the media-enabled political opposition, the best way to do it is from elected office.

 

[randomuser]

I do agree more should be done to paint the 2A community in a better light. Advocating borderline extremism does not help any cause. If they are trying to portray gun owners as dangerous now then I can’t imagine how a bunch of people showing up at their family gatherings will help.

We can't show them how compliant we can be. Anything other than compliance is extremism in their mind.

I guess you could play their game and let them pass 5 of every 10 gun laws they want, but it's like the businessman who buys for 10 cents per part and sells them for 8 cents per part with the strategy that he looses a little with each sale, but he will make it up with volume.

That is what they want. So any wwnc, is meaningless unless you actually don't comply. How do you let them know you are not complying. They will call you an extremist simply because you don't comply. Where is the line in the sand? Are they allowed to continue to move it until you have no way to prevent them from moving it any longer?

Beta opuke even said it himself. He might be a beta male, but he was running for president and had a lot of people watching him and plenty of them echoing his same words. They are coming out of the woodwork saying the same thing.
beta said "I believe that the American people are law abiding and will follow the ban" (something like that) said on the Tucker Carlson interview. He feels that if the owners/politicians write ink on paper it is our obligation to be law abiding and follow the orders. This is their mindset. It's why I'm not the biggest fan of the term "law abiding". I follow the golden rule, it seems to work as it covers all basis.


I never thought that in my lifetime I'd see this country so divided. Look how many of the politicians are on board (and open about it).

 

[Bikebreath]

Amazing how it is predictable this time of the year the people that come out of the woodwork around here.

It's like clockwork.

Thank you, oh great Timekeeper.

 

[aray]

While ignoring the sad spiral downward this thread took, I'll highlight one bit of caution for those able to go. Remember, in the last presidential election, Project Veritas caught DNC operatives red-handed on undercover video running false flag operations, to create violence at Trump rallies, pretending to be Trump supporters, in an attempt to make us look bad. And of course the sycophantic media ate it up, then barely covered the Veritas videos, much less refusing to retract their original reporting. So be careful when attending, and think about how to react should that happen. The OP did us one favor at least, when he pointed out the stupidity of creating only one entrance and exit at the site.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Beta opuke even said it himself. He might be a beta male, but he was running for president and had a lot of people watching him and plenty of them echoing his same words. They are coming out of the woodwork saying the same thing.
beta said "I believe that the American people are law abiding and will follow the ban" (something like that) said on the Tucker Carlson interview. He feels that if the owners/politicians write ink on paper it is our obligation to be law abiding and follow the orders. This is their mindset. It's why I'm not the biggest fan of the term "law abiding". I follow the golden rule, it seems to work as it covers all basis.

It doesn't help that most conservatives, and by extension most 2A supporters, are by their very nature people who keep their heads down and do what they're told (which is why mainstream conservatism has nothing to show for itself but a 60 year string of political losses at this point but that's another rant for another day) and as such, the left really isn't used to seeing conservatives stand up for their rights in any way that's more confrontational than going to the voting booth, much less vehemently organizing themselves in the same way that civil rights or gay rights activists did.

So when they ram the latest piece of unconstitutional BS down some poor state's throat, they never get any pushback, and so, in the words of the Joker, "They think that we'll just sit down and take it like good little boys!", because, for the most part, we do.

That probably needs to change, though who knows what that change will actually look like, so it's probably best to tread cautiously.

 

[AACO_Salami]

It's funny, everyone bashed Concerned User's point of view, you ban him from your forum.
Yet your tactics for preserving our rights in Maryland have been the opposite of successful.
Where has being polite and petitioning the Democratic majority in Annapolis gotten us?
Perhaps it is time to adopt their tactics. Perhaps it is time to make life for them uncomfortable. What was Maxine's line? When you see them in public shout them down and make them know they are not welcome here.

 

[Occam]

It's funny, everyone bashed Concerned User's point of view, you ban him from your forum.
Yet your tactics for preserving our rights in Maryland have been the opposite of successful.
Where has being polite and petitioning the Democratic majority in Annapolis gotten us?
Perhaps it is time to adopt their tactics. Perhaps it is time to make life for them uncomfortable. What was Maxine's line? When you see them in public shout them down and make them know they are not welcome here.

Would someone doing those things to you cause you to change your mind and approve of more gun restrictions? No? Why not?

 

[teratos]

It's funny, everyone bashed Concerned User's point of view, you ban him from your forum.
Yet your tactics for preserving our rights in Maryland have been the opposite of successful.
Where has being polite and petitioning the Democratic majority in Annapolis gotten us?
Perhaps it is time to adopt their tactics. Perhaps it is time to make life for them uncomfortable. What was Maxine's line? When you see them in public shout them down and make them know they are not welcome here.

So you contend using other tactics would be successful? Being rude, belligerent, threatening....which do you think will get is to the point where the Democratic Super-majority to give up? They don’t have to give up a damned thing. Thinking some other tactic will work shows a very naive view of power.

 

[shershot99]

I am so torn on this. On one hand, it would be good to have a Bundy Ranch type rally and standoff because I think our side would win and it might cause the leftist to pause at least... on the other hand this terrifies me. Not that our side would do something crazy or that the police will arrest a bunch of us or shoot first, but the infiltrators or hangers on will take advantage of us and start some shit that cant be stopped. That is what I am so worried about. All you need is one or two ass hats to take advantage of our presence and then we are all labeled neo-nazi right wingers. I do remember some "odd" types trying to take advantage of the Bundy Ranch stuff but I think they were told to leave by the Bundy's. Not sure, but we need to be very careful here. God Bless all those going. Protect them and help them.

 

[Doctor_M]

...God Bless all those going. Protect them and help them.

Amen!

 

[bibitor]

It's funny, everyone bashed Concerned User's point of view, you ban him from your forum.
Yet your tactics for preserving our rights in Maryland have been the opposite of successful.
Where has being polite and petitioning the Democratic majority in Annapolis gotten us?
Perhaps it is time to adopt their tactics. Perhaps it is time to make life for them uncomfortable. What was Maxine's line? When you see them in public shout them down and make them know they are not welcome here.

The OP did get unhinged in a few of his posts, but he also seemed to rein it in prior to the ban. I can’t speak to why the mods pulled the trigger, could be other circumstances I am not aware of, but in general I share your sentiment.

I know that trolls are a common enough occurrence and long time users are weary, especially during this time of year, but I was a little unsettled when I saw he was banned.

Taking this on a tangent, I was thinking about civil disobedience and its success in other rights movements. It poses a real problem for the issue at hand because participating in civil disobedience, when it comes to gun laws, mean you legally lose your rights (permanently in most cases).

The only way I can think of to possibly circumvent these consequences would be a massive display, tens of thousands of protestors at a single event...but I fear the logistics of such a protest is beyond the faculties of 2A activists, of which I include myself.

Voting and running for office are fine ideals, but how do you counter being out-bread by those who wish to see this country disarmed? This is our Gordian Knot and I haven’t seen any swords.

 

[fred55]

I don't think their minds (Socialists) can be changed. I think the solution is a two prong process. One is the courts ruling in favor of the 2A. The other prong is getting pro-2A numbers up and out to vote. fred55

 

[copasetic]

This is exactly what is about (might) happed in Va on Monday... “ massive display, tens of thousands of protestors at a single event” ...

The OP did get unhinged in a few of his posts, but he also seemed to rein it in prior to the ban. I can’t speak to why the mods pulled the trigger, could be other circumstances I am not aware of, but in general I share your sentiment.

I know that trolls are a common enough occurrence and long time users are weary, especially during this time of year, but I was a little unsettled when I saw he was banned.

Taking this on a tangent, I was thinking about civil disobedience and its success in other rights movements. It poses a real problem for the issue at hand because participating in civil disobedience, when it comes to gun laws, mean you legally lose your rights (permanently in most cases).

The only way I can think of to possibly circumvent these consequences would be a massive display, tens of thousands of protestors at a single event...but I fear the logistics of such a protest is beyond the faculties of 2A activists, of which I include myself.

Voting and running for office are fine ideals, but how do you counter being out-bread by those who wish to see this country disarmed? This is our Gordian Knot and I haven’t seen any swords.

 

[teratos]

The problem with gun rights is they think guns are dangerous. Angry armed mobs (as they see it) play to their greatest fears and solidify their stance.

What they absolutely fail to understand is that if you leave us alone, WE aren’t going to cause any issues. The root of any violence will be directly related to THEIR actions.

 

[bibitor]

This is exactly what is about (might) happed in Va on Monday... “ massive display, tens of thousands of protestors at a single event” ...

I wasn’t exactly clear in my last post. I meant to imply tens of thousand of armed protestors, otherwise where’s the civil disobedience? Gathering in a government approved and controlled free speech zone is just a protest. I still consider such gatherings necessary and impactful, but no one would consider it defiant.

 

[whistlersmother]

What is being done in Maryland right now hasn't worked (made FSA2013 less onerous, but we still got it) because here we are again, dealing with even more infringements.

Something different must be done. Perhaps using Alinsky's Rules by shaming, ridiculing, driving current incumbents out of office.

Out in Idaho, fliers are passed out claiming the incumbent isn't pro-2A enough. Seems to work.

If the goal is to get incumbents out of office, increase the churn on the MGA, then latching onto some social issue and claiming the incumbent isn't in tune with the times - get voters thinking of alternatives.

We're not getting the super majority out, but maybe we can churn it enough so it's more worried about getting primaried.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Gotta echo the Bibitor.

OP did himself no favors. How you say what you say is pretty important.

What the 2A community is doing strategically and tactically is not advancing the cause imo. The OP was essentially telling you your strategy might be ok (or not...don’t know I’ve ever really heard cogent 2A community strategy) but your tactics are failing miserably.

I cannot argue with that. Being bold and or brave and going to lots of events is not to be confused with making progress against a strategy and or related set of objective metrics.

Briefly put, the proof is in the pudding. Look at VA and Gov Blackface and his socialist minions. The 2A community is in an almost constant tail chase. Raising funds and hiring attorneys is but one annex to what should be a comprehensive OPLAN and that must be rooted in some solid strategy with some damned effective and constantly updated tactics. We do a lot of tail chasing and hand wringing. Fight fire with Fire. The moral high ground sounds nice right up until you can’t touch bottom because the swamp subsumed all the damned terra firma...and NEVER LEARNED TO SWIM.

That condition does not exist today or you’d be making progress not sucking hind teat.

The OP said some things poorly. They need to be said. Inevitably, you need to be uncomfortable to make progress.

If VA represents progress (how we got where we are) then count me out. I’ll sit up in these hills and take my chances with someone one day struggling up the hill and trying to take my kit.

None of this denigrates person A or organization B. New blood, young turks/bucks need to be identified, recruited, taught and LISTENED TO. Patience with potential talent and future leaders is the hallmark of a good movement, team, or group. When you think you know everything, you’re sadly mistaken.

Don’t throw out the baby with the damned bath water. If you read this and want to be offended...so be it. If you read it and say, hmmm, maybe he has a point, well then, Good on ya.