Recommend to me some AR Uppers please

[smokey]

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper/

Get this. It's top tier quality at a reasonable price. Larue tests all uppers and posts the results on his Instagram. Damned near all shoot about a half moa during the tests. His hanguard mounting system is also one of the strongest while getting pressure off the barrel nut.

 

[Garet Jax]

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper/

Get this. It's top tier quality at a reasonable price. Larue tests all uppers and posts the results on his Instagram. Damned near all shoot about a half moa during the tests. His hanguard mounting system is also one of the strongest while getting pressure off the barrel nut.

Very interesting. I dismissed Larue because of the costs, but then found myself right back in that range looking at the BCM. It seems that 1 Larue and maybe 1 Delton makes sense to try out as complete uppers.

Do you know if his barrels are threaded?

 

[trickg]

Thought that's what I read above. Must have misread it.

That’s what I said, and depending on what you want, it’s often less expensive to buy a complete upper rather than parting one out - the makers will have parts they have obtained in bulk so they can afford to slightly discount it as a complete unit.

With that said, I don’t have any experience with BCM or their pricing - my experience has been with Delton and Palmetto State Armory.

 

[slsc98]

Yikes. That's way less than half the price of the BCM because it comes with the full LPK, BCG and CH. That is so hard to pass up especially with all the support they get here.

Exactly why I have four (at least 4, I could be undercounting) atop PSA complete lowers … which I was getting for $120-30. When the wife curses after tripping over or stubbing her toe on a msr around here I just remind her: how light it is; and, it cost us $450 (before LaRue MBT and optic, that is). Krazzee …

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

Yikes. That's way less than half the price of the BCM because it comes with the full LPK, BCG and CH. That is so hard to pass up especially with all the support they get here.

IMO, BCM is well worth the premium over Delton.

Or at least, I'd buy one BCM as a "serious use" rifle, and perhaps the rest Delton

 

[Garet Jax]

IMO, BCM is well worth the premium over Delton.

Or at least, I'd buy one BCM as a "serious use" rifle, and perhaps the rest Delton

How about BCM vs Larue? The Larue is $50 more expensive, but comes with a BCG and CH.

 

[trickg]

IMO, BCM is well worth the premium over Delton.

Or at least, I'd buy one BCM as a "serious use" rifle, and perhaps the rest Delton

I see comments like this a lot and it always makes me want to ask the question, what definable, quantifiable things are you getting by spending more that you don't get with something else that was parted out and put together?

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

I see comments like this a lot and it always makes me want to ask the question, what definable, quantifiable things are you getting by spending more that you don't get with something else that was parted out and put together?

Materials, build quality, and QC.

I cannot speak for Delton, but I have taken apart my fair share of Aero, PSA, BCA, and Ruger AR's. Common theme? None of them ever have grease on the receiver threads, no dimples on the barrels, zero thread compound on the gas block set screws and improperly torqued. Also, they use inexperienced techs to assemble their uppers, in many cases contracted temp employees (I used to work for a temp agency that staffed for Ruger). Point blank, they are not built by competent people, in general.

Adding to that, they don't individually QC the parts that go into the build. You would be amazed by how many gas tubes are improper length and out of spec, the variation in a .750 gas block between manufacturers, etc etc

Two companies may source parts from the SAME place, but the QC tolerances vary significally. What will be rejected for BCM, will be diverted to a company with less demanding specs. Ever seen a gas block with an obvious gas leak? I have, many many times.

Also, you certainly can do better when you build yourself, but the key is going to be sourcing parts where you can trust the QC. For my personal builds, I buy BCM small parts, gas blocks, gas tubes, BCG's. And then from there, assembling properly, which not everyone is equipped to do.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

How about BCM vs Larue? The Larue is $50 more expensive, but comes with a BCG and CH.

Larue is good stuff

I also really like SOLGW (Sons of Liberty Gun Works). Arguably at least as good as BCM. They are crazy about QC over there.

 

[trickg]

Materials, build quality, and QC.

I cannot speak for Delton, but I have taken apart my fair share of Aero, PSA, BCA, and Ruger AR's. Common theme? None of them ever have grease on the receiver threads, no dimples on the barrels, zero thread compound on the gas block set screws and improperly torqued. Also, they use inexperienced techs to assemble their uppers, in many cases contracted temp employees (I used to work for a temp agency that staffed for Ruger). Point blank, they are not built by competent people, in general.

Adding to that, they don't individually QC the parts that go into the build. You would be amazed by how many gas tubes are improper length and out of spec, the variation in a .750 gas block between manufacturers, etc etc

Two companies may source parts from the SAME place, but the QC tolerances vary significally. What will be rejected for BCM, will be diverted to a company with less demanding specs. Ever seen a gas block with an obvious gas leak? I have, many many times.

You may have misunderstood what I asked. I asked about parting out an upper build and doing it yourself. Many of those things you mentioned I've done myself -

-- grease on the receiver threads - I use Aeroshell
-- Dimples on the barrel - I have my own dimpling jig, although in a technical sense, the dimple really isn't necessary, but I do it for ease of assembly so I can have a degree of confidence that the gas block is properly aligned.
-- Thread compound on the gas block set screws - I use Rock Set, although gas block set screws have teeth that hold them in place when properly torqued - there's plenty of arguments online on whether or not the gas block set screws need thread locking compound.
-- Torque settings - I use a 1/2" torque wrench on the barrel nut, and a Wheeler Fat Wrench on screws
-- I have go/no go headspace gauges to check fitment of the bolt with the barrel to insure it has acceptable headspace
-- I have a receiver lapping tool, although to date I've only lapped 1 receiver, and I'm not positive it " needed" it - fitment looked pretty good before I lapped it.

I also get to choose the parts I use - I don't buy the most expensive stuff on the shelf, but I don't go bargain basement either. Barrels I've used are Faxon and Ballistic Advantage - not awesome, but not cheap either. I gravitate towards Tool Craft for BCGs, but I've also used PSA, which to my knowledge might be made by Tool Craft. I've used PSA and Aero uppers, and currently everything I have is on either a PSA or Seekins lower.

So with all of that out of the way, I'll ask again, what's quantifiable difference?

 

[Garet Jax]

Materials, build quality, and QC.

I cannot speak for Delton, but I have taken apart my fair share of Aero, PSA, BCA, and Ruger AR's. Common theme? None of them ever have grease on the receiver threads, no dimples on the barrels, zero thread compound on the gas block set screws and improperly torqued. Also, they use inexperienced techs to assemble their uppers, in many cases contracted temp employees (I used to work for a temp agency that staffed for Ruger). Point blank, they are not built by competent people, in general.

Adding to that, they don't individually QC the parts that go into the build. You would be amazed by how many gas tubes are improper length and out of spec, the variation in a .750 gas block between manufacturers, etc etc

Two companies may source parts from the SAME place, but the QC tolerances vary significally. What will be rejected for BCM, will be diverted to a company with less demanding specs. Ever seen a gas block with an obvious gas leak? I have, many many times.

Also, you certainly can do better when you build yourself, but the key is going to be sourcing parts where you can trust the QC. For my personal builds, I buy BCM small parts, gas blocks, gas tubes, BCG's. And then from there, assembling properly, which not everyone is equipped to do.

Do you use grease to prevent seizing or for another reason? Do you use it on the front and the back of the receiver?

Do the gas block set screws have a specific torque they should be tightened to?

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

You may have misunderstood what I asked. I asked about parting out an upper build and doing it yourself. Many of those things you mentioned I've done myself -

-- grease on the receiver threads - I use Aeroshell
-- Dimples on the barrel - I have my own dimpling jig, although in a technical sense, the dimple really isn't necessary, but I do it for ease of assembly so I can have a degree of confidence that the gas block is properly aligned.
-- Thread compound on the gas block set screws - I use Rock Set, although gas block set screws have teeth that hold them in place when properly torqued - there's plenty of arguments online on whether or not the gas block set screws need thread locking compound.
-- Torque settings - I use a 1/2" torque wrench on the barrel nut, and a Wheeler Fat Wrench on screws
-- I have go/no go headspace gauges to check fitment of the bolt with the barrel to insure it has acceptable headspace
-- I have a receiver lapping tool, although to date I've only lapped 1 receiver, and I'm not positive it " needed" it - fitment looked pretty good before I lapped it.

I also get to choose the parts I use - I don't buy the most expensive stuff on the shelf, but I don't go bargain basement either. Barrels I've used are Faxon and Ballistic Advantage - not awesome, but not cheap either. I gravitate towards Tool Craft for BCGs, but I've also used PSA, which to my knowledge might be made by Tool Craft. I've used PSA and Aero uppers, and currently everything I have is on either a PSA or Seekins lower.

So with all of that out of the way, I'll ask again, what's quantifiable difference?

If you buy yourself and understand how to build properly, which it seems you do, then yes you can certainly do better across most every price point.

That said, most folks do not. I also personally don't lap receivers as I don't find it necessary.

Also, you can generally reassemble a cheap upper/rifle into something that can be relied on. Ruger is a good example of a company that uses OK parts, but the build quality is absolute crap. A quick rebuild is all they typically need.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

Do you use grease to prevent seizing or for another reason? Do you use it on the front and the back of the receiver?

Do the gas block set screws have a specific torque they should be tightened to?

Aeroshell grease on the receiver extension threads, that's it. Primarily for anti-sieze and to ensure it's tightened properly. You won't get the same clamp strength with unseasoned, ungreased threads. My understanding is that the castle nut threads do not call for grease of any kind.

Regarding GB screw torque, I keep it simple and torque to the point where the long end of the hex wrench begins to bend. This is the guidance I received from someone who knows their stuff over at Criterion.

 

[Garet Jax]

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Awesome stuff folks.

 

[Garet Jax]

-- grease on the receiver threads - I use Aeroshell
-- Dimples on the barrel -
-- Thread compound on the gas block set screws - I use Rock Set

I have lots of grease around here. Any reason grease for a car wouldn't be good enough?

Do you know if Delton has dimpled barrels?

I have Loctite Blue and Red. Is Red good enough or is Rock Set better?

 

[trickg]

I have lots of grease around here. Any reason grease for a car wouldn't be good enough?

Do you know if Delton has dimpled barrels?

I have Loctite Blue and Red. Is Red good enough or is Rock Set better?

You'll get lots of arguments on why it has to be Aeroshell, but I'm not sure it does. When I was doing my bolt rifle build and called for advisement, the guys at Northland Shooters supply said that any kind of grease is ok - it's mainly to keep threads from galling and seizing for later disassembly. However, that's with steel - with aluminum I think that certain compounds might cause a reaction that will actually cause seizing, and that's why I made the point to go specifically with Aeroshell, although I think that the Valvoline bearing grease designed for Fords with molly would probably be just fine too, and I have a whole tub of that.

FWIW, Larry Potterfield of Midway USA uses anti-seize compound on his receiver threads in the video they have online for how to put a barrel on an AR receiver.

With the thread compound, I bought Rocksett because it was recommended by someone I trust - I don't think that Blue will hold up under the heat generated by the barrel. The most important thing is probably proper torque with toothed gas block screws.

Also, you can generally reassemble a cheap upper/rifle into something that can be relied on. Ruger is a good example of a company that uses OK parts, but the build quality is absolute crap. A quick rebuild is all they typically need.

I have a PSA pre-built upper with an 18" 223 Wylde barrel that isn't as accurate as I would have liked. I'm thinking about pulling that apart and reassembling it - possibly lapping the receiver, although like you, I'm not positive it's necessary, which is why I've only done it once - to see if maybe I can get it to be a bit more accurate. Thinking of bedding the barrel with 620 Loctite, although I'm not positve that's necessary either.

 

[johnkn]

There are several uppers for sale in the Classified section here...

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[SkiPatrolDude]

You'll get lots of arguments on why it has to be Aeroshell, but I'm not sure it does. When I was doing my bolt rifle build and called for advisement, the guys at Northland Shooters supply said that any kind of grease is ok - it's mainly to keep threads from galling and seizing for later disassembly. However, that's with steel - with aluminum I think that certain compounds might cause a reaction that will actually cause seizing, and that's why I made the point to go specifically with Aeroshell, although I think that the Valvoline bearing grease designed for Fords with molly would probably be just fine too, and I have a whole tub of that.

FWIW, Larry Potterfield of Midway USA uses anti-seize compound on his receiver threads in the video they have online for how to put a barrel on an AR receiver.

With the thread compound, I bought Rocksett because it was recommended by someone I trust - I don't think that Blue will hold up under the heat generated by the barrel. The most important thing is probably proper torque with toothed gas block screws.


I have a PSA pre-built upper with an 18" 223 Wylde barrel that isn't as accurate as I would have liked. I'm thinking about pulling that apart and reassembling it - possibly lapping the receiver, although like you, I'm not positive it's necessary, which is why I've only done it once - to see if maybe I can get it to be a bit more accurate. Thinking of bedding the barrel with 620 Loctite, although I'm not positve that's necessary either.

I have a PSA complete upper with an 18 inch FN CHF mid length HBAR (chrome lined) that shoots incredibly well for what it is. I get roughly 1 MOA with good factory ammo. I never shot it before I rebuilt it though. It uses a Bushmaster BCG that I got on the cheap that has worked well so far.

I helped a friend with a "no budget" build around an 18 Criterion Nitride HBAR barrel and we bedded the barrel and gas block (to reduce harmonic distortion, according to him) and he achieves about 3/4 moa with his hand loads. I have no hard evidence to suggest doing any of that made a difference, but it's what he wanted to do. We did not lap the receiver (which was blem BCM).

Also, I have no doubt that there are plenty of useable alternatives to Aeroshell. I just use it because it's easy to get and what is typically recommended.

 

[trickg]

You can get a little jar of Aeroshell from The Umbrella Corp. on Amazon. I got the 1 oz jar, and I'm barely even into it. I've used it on several things - it's a good multi-purpose grease, and just a dab'll do ya. That's what I used on the barrel threads of my Bighorn Origin rifle bolt rifle build.

A friend of mine gave me a HBAR 16" stainless Bear Creek Arsenal barrel - he'd gotten it from some other guy for some reason or other, and he had no use for it. The thing is, BCA barrels aren't exactly known for their ultra-precision. They are known for begin budget level. I'll probably build out an upper with it, but I'm honestly not expecting fine accuracy out of it.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

You can get a little jar of Aeroshell from The Umbrella Corp. on Amazon. I got the 1 oz jar, and I'm barely even into it. I've used it on several things - it's a good multi-purpose grease, and just a dab'll do ya. That's what I used on the barrel threads of my Bighorn Origin rifle bolt rifle build.
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I have that exact same grease.