ramifications of watertown.

[jrumann59]

Apples and oranges comparing military housing (where one is subject to searches at anytime) with people who own property. Huge difference

My point is we ended up pulling her from her door to investigate the noise in house where she was alone. We had her on the ground while threeof use entered the house. Someon on the outside would think were arresting this woman for something based on the way we detained adn entered her house. Which ultimately was far from the truth. We apologized, she was mad we had to visit our CO and had to make sure our reports were very detailed.

 

[Redcobra]

My point is we ended up pulling her from her door to investigate the noise in house where she was alone. We had her on the ground while threeof use entered the house. Someon on the outside would think were arresting this woman for something based on the way we detained adn entered her house. Which ultimately was far from the truth. We apologized, she was mad we had to visit our CO and had to make sure our reports were very detailed.

Sieg Heil.

 

[Inigoes]

My point is we ended up pulling her from her door to investigate the noise in house where she was alone. We had her on the ground while threeof use entered the house. Someon on the outside would think were arresting this woman for something based on the way we detained adn entered her house. Which ultimately was far from the truth. We apologized, she was mad we had to visit our CO and had to make sure our reports were very detailed.

Like I said, apples and oranges.

Everytime someone steps on a military reservation, they are subject to being searched for whatever reason. Spouses do not understand that most of the time.

Private property is in entirely different critter, the LE agancies are not afforded those powers. The LE agencies would love to think they can direct you on your own property. In the end, it is private property affording one some level of sovereignty. To include evicting/repelling them from the premises (This won't go over to well, though).

 

[jrumann59]

Sieg Heil.

Yeah because after being tod that she is alone and you hear nosie that requires outside force in a house as "suspicious". I guess you never get up in the night for strange noises.

 

[jrumann59]

Like I said, apples and oranges.

Everytime someone steps on a military reservation, they are subject to being searched for whatever reason. Spouses do not understand that most of the time.

Private property is in entirely different critter, the LE agancies are not afforded those powers. The LE agencies would love to think they can direct you on your own property. In the end, it is private property affording one some level of sovereignty. To include evicting/repelling them from the premises (This won't go over to well, though).

I get what your are saying but to someone that is observing it would look like JBT especially when we leave the house empty handed because they have no idea what the detais of everything is. Considering the first 4 houses we did nothing but inquire.

 

[2AHokie]

My point is we ended up pulling her from her door to investigate the noise in house where she was alone. We had her on the ground while threeof use entered the house. Someon on the outside would think were arresting this woman for something based on the way we detained adn entered her house. Which ultimately was far from the truth. We apologized, she was mad we had to visit our CO and had to make sure our reports were very detailed.

You had her on the ground for doing what? Did you ask her to lie down for her safety? Or did someone put a knee on her back? Either way, it seems to me that she would have been better off by not answering the door.

 

[Inigoes]

I get what your are saying but to someone that is observing it would look like JBT especially when we leave the house empty handed because they have no idea what the detais of everything is. Considering the first 4 houses we did nothing but inquire.

I see what you are saying also, but the military audience would be more disciplined.

Out here in the world, not so much.

 

[jpo183]

Its apples and oranges you are talking about military presence in a war zone rather then on US soil. If you are trying to make an analogy about appearances here's a story:

Saw a pretty girl, woke up in the morning next to her to find out the beer goggles wore off and she was ugly.

 

[Safetech]

Are you saying that they really thought the guy might be in any of those houses that they went traipsing into? If so, their procedure was as about as stupid as it could possibly be.

If the guy WAS in there, he would have started shooting (starting with the people NOT wearing body armour). So the civilians/hostages would have been the first casualties.

I doubt they would go in like that if they thought for one moment that the fugitive AND innocent people might be inside together.

If, OTOH, they did not have good reason to believe that the guy was actually in the house(s), they had no business preceding the way they did.

Either way, they screwed up. Plain and simple.

 

[Redcobra]

Yeah because after being tod that she is alone and you hear nosie that requires outside force in a house as "suspicious". I guess you never get up in the night for strange noises.

Nope. I have two German Shepherds that handle that.
No warrant. You don't get in.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I changed my mind.

I just burned my civil liberties wallet card. Paper burns well at 451 degrees.

I just put a sign in my yard "come on in---guns are optional".

I feel better now.

I can now be thrown to the ground without a worry in the world.

I already shot my dog and my cat and my snakes.

I know all the pets were innocent too, but were living in a new time now.

I figured that if I killed my pets then the JBT's could sleep better at night.

I'm still in tears over killing them, but that's the price of liberty and freedom in our brave new world.

I tried to shoot the mouse that lives under my sink, but he was too fast and got away.

I called the Watertown Police and there going to send down a few tanks, a helicopter, and 2,000 men to track down the mouse.

I asked them if they had any boats for the mouse to hide in so they could flash-bang the little guy after the maniac mouse hunt didn't pan out. They didn't laugh.

I can hear the helicopter now. It's right over top of my hou.....

 

[JMangle]

They swear it was consensual.

Kinda like when the girl said she was 18, type of thing.

 

[Fox123]

So how do you feel about roadblocks during manhunts?

I am defending the fact that the JBT name calling based on what reliable information is unsound. I have said if there are abuses I hope they are investigated and the violators prosecuted. My point being no one here was on the ground in Boston and have no idea what was witnessed by cops or civilians with their cell phone cameras rolling. There has a been a certain movement here on these boards that has become very anti-leo anti-.mil because of paranoia, is the paranoisa founded yes probably I mean after you saw how the LAPD botched the search for Dorner. As for Watertown I will give the "Police" the benefit of the doubt until all the facts have made it out and they will. Point being the videos on youtube only tell one side of the story and the places that are being cited as credible sources for people's point of view now were uncredible 2 months ago when it was pushing a view contrary to their own then.

I will tell a little story from about 20 years ago, while on patrol on a US military base an Iraqi Vet lost it, later diagnosed with PTSD, he was at the range and for whatever reason he started shooting at other peoples targets he was asked to stop he then started threatening the range officer and pointed his rifle at him. Someone called the MPs as we pulled into the range he saw us and took off into the woods with the rifle. We conducted a search of the wooded area and got call about an hour later a man with a rifle was seen running behind some houses in residential area on base, that was 10 miles away. We head to the housing area, similar to townhouses and do a door to door search and inquiry. We get to one house and a woman opens the door we ask a few questions one of which is, "are you home alone?" she answers yes as we are getting ready to leave we hear a glass break in the kitchen. IF you were some person that came to the show late you would think we were raiding the house, what happened was when we knocked ont he door she was making a sandwich or something and when she went to answer the door her dog had jumped up to the counter to eat the sandwich and knocked a glass of water off the counter. On side note after each interview you know what we told the people. "Stay in your house and keep the doors and windows locked." Long story short we found the guy a few minutes later down by a creek crying evidently whatever got hold of him passed and we arrested him and had him evaluted by a shrink.

Ahhhh but funny thing about your story..... You were doing exactly what should have been done in this case. You knocked on the door and then engaged the resident in a conversation.


It was not until you heard something in the house after the resident told you she was alone that you escalated the situation.



Now we look at the Watertown events. Knocking and as soon as the door opened, no conversation- immediately to "PUT YOUR HANDS UP" with muzzles trained on him.

 

[jrumann59]

Its apples and oranges you are talking about military presence in a war zone rather then on US soil. If you are trying to make an analogy about appearances here's a story:

Saw a pretty girl, woke up in the morning next to her to find out the beer goggles wore off and she was ugly.

Nope a miltary base near you, possibly.

 

[PharaohF4]

I have a question? Say an officer is at my door to ask me a question. How should I open the door so that they don't have entry? I.e. do I step outside and shut the door behind me?

I was just wondering what options we would have in a similar situation here? Does me opening the door give the cop the right to enter or do they need a verbal affirmination from me to enter. Assuming they don't see anything illegal that would give them probable cause. I also think I heard that if you give consent for a search, you can end the search at any time. I think I got that from a lawyer/law schoold video.

Thanks

 

[Name Taken]

When you open the door for the mailman, pizza guy, or UPS man what do you do?

Just do the same thing with the police.

 

[jrumann59]

Are you saying that they really thought the guy might be in any of those houses that they went traipsing into? If so, their procedure was as about as stupid as it could possibly be.

If the guy WAS in there, he would have started shooting (starting with the people NOT wearing body armour). So the civilians/hostages would have been the first casualties.

I doubt they would go in like that if they thought for one moment that the fugitive AND innocent people might be inside together.

If, OTOH, they did not have good reason to believe that the guy was actually in the house(s), they had no business preceding the way they did.

Either way, they screwed up. Plain and simple.

Do we know that there was not a report someone strange running into the backyard. The point is too many here automatically jump to oh noes they are coming to take me away based on a video taking froma cellphone. Listen I get the fact .gov has done things to warrant the stink eye but perpetuating black helicopter scenarios with half the info and guessing about the situation to fit a pre-conceived notion that backs up an agenda. I am not advocating burying your head in the sand and say, "well it must be alright." We can question without accusing but too many already have the police/.mil guilty of Jack Boot Thuggery will no real evidence except for what they think they see, if it looks like duck, walks like a duck, but you do not hea it quack like duck is it still a duck?

 

[pbharvey]

When you open the door for the mailman, pizza guy, or UPS man what do you do?

Just do the same thing with the police.

Think twice about that ups-impersonator-burglarizes-li-home

 

[jrumann59]

I have a question? Say an officer is at my door to ask me a question. How should I open the door so that they don't have entry? I.e. do I step outside and shut the door behind me?

I was just wondering what options we would have in a similar situation here? Does me opening the door give the cop the right to enter or do they need a verbal affirmination from me to enter. Assuming they don't see anything illegal that would give them probable cause. I also think I heard that if you give consent for a search, you can end the search at any time. I think I got that from a lawyer/law schoold video.

Thanks

If you leave your door wide open if they see something illegal it would follow under plain sight. If they ask you step out you shut the door behind you but also do not present yourself in a threatening manner or in a manner that can make them nervous like opening the door far enough you can stick your head out and they cannot see your hands, it raises the alarm level of the cop becaue well they have no idea what the rest of our body is doing behind the door.

 

[jrumann59]

Safetech the reason many of the LEOs and such that would defend situaions like this are quiet is because this like the 7th thread about this adn they have been called many names