ramifications of watertown.

[Haides]

I think your tinfoil's a little too tight bro.

Honestly though, similar to what I said about my dog earlier, if that were me those cops could point a loaded gun at me all day if they want, but if they start pointing a loaded gun at my wife or my kids, they're probably gonna have to shoot me because I will not tolerate that.

 

[jrumann59]

Rule of thumb: if it's locked private property, police have to get a warrant or permission.

Actually that extends to privacy fenced property also.

 

[Ouhuzo]

I have a question? Say an officer is at my door to ask me a question. How should I open the door so that they don't have entry? I.e. do I step outside and shut the door behind me?

I was just wondering what options we would have in a similar situation here? Does me opening the door give the cop the right to enter or do they need a verbal affirmination from me to enter. Assuming they don't see anything illegal that would give them probable cause. I also think I heard that if you give consent for a search, you can end the search at any time. I think I got that from a lawyer/law schoold video.

Thanks

“An intrusion by the state into the privacy of the home for any purpose is one of the most awesome incursions of police power into the life of the individual.” People v. Ramey (1976) 16 Cal.3d 263, 275. Also see Payton v. New York (1980) 445 U.S. 573, 588-9 [“To be arrested in the home involves not only the invasion attendant to all arrests but also an invasion of the sanctity of the home.”]; United States v. U.S. District Court (1972) 407 U.S. 297, 313 [“(P)hysical entry of the home is the chief evil against which the wording of the Fourth Amendment is directed.”]; People v. Marquez (1992) 1 Cal.4th 553, 566 [“The United States Supreme Court reached the same conclusion [as we did in Ramey] in Payton v. New York”].

However, if you open the door the threshold where you at is considered a public place and the cops can execute a detention there. Furthermore, if you retreat or step behind the threshold, the cops may go in after you. Why is the threshold a public place? Because it's not merely visible to the public but is as exposed to public view, speech, hearing, and touch as if your're standing completely outside the house. (See People v. Watkins (1994) 26 Cal.App.4th 19, 29; U.S. v. Santana (1976) 427 U.S. 38, 42; People v. Hampton (1985) 164 Cal.App.3d 27, 36; U.S. v. Whitten (9th Cir. 1983) 706 F.2d 1000, 1015 [“A doorway, unlike the interior of a hotel room, is a public place.”]; U.S. v. Botero (9th Cir. 1978) 589 F.2d 430, 432. 21; U.S. v. Albrektsen (9th Cir. 1998) 151 F.3d 951, 954, fn.5).

So you can leave the door shut and make absolutly no sound or motion that can be detected outside that would give cops probable cause there's someone in the home (Kentucky v King). But if the Administrative Search Warrant authorizes the cops to search anyway, they'll break in. One of the earlier vids in this thread about a couple that refused to open their door during the dragnet but the cops came in anyway indicates there is a search warrant in effect.

Or you can choose open the door and exit while closing and locking it behind you. But always demand to see the warrant if they insist on entering.

There is a longer version of the viral vid posted earlier showing the dragnet. I estimate the time the occupants were instructed out the house and detained during the investigation as about five to seven minutes. A typical Terry investigative detention when you get pulled over is about twenty minutes.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Hello Ouhuzo.

I like the fact that YOU don't type while your drunk or on crack or hopped-up on rage and anger.

It's nice to see hard stops and punctuation.

Good information too.

Thanks.

 

[Ouhuzo]

Remember PharaohF4, you did nothing illegal. And just remember, if the cops show up at your door, and unless they have a warrant, you are under no obligation whatsoever to let them in, speak to them, or to even respond to their door-knocking. You can freely ignore them if you choose to do so (again, as long as they don't have a warrant). And even if they have a warrant, you don't have to speak. Silence is and always will be your best defense.

If they have a warrant, whether a Administrative Search or an Individualized Probable Cause or whatever warrant they have, the rules change. Don't speak to them except saying you don't consent to any searches but don't physically resist; then challange the warrant in court.

 

[bigalf]

"never let a tragedy go to waste" thats what were dealing with.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

It would appear that this thread has played itself out.

Kind of sucks.

Gotta find my fix elsewhere now.