PSA That didn't take long.........

[jef955]

See you there! I won't be hard to spot...

View attachment 372268

Priceless !!

 

[Blaster229]

I don't have the post thread but remember folks there was someone charged a few years ago that did this same thing as a trainer. I remember him being a cop or retired cop.

Do not get into that type of situation, it is easy to be swayed.

I think this was a case of a Balt city cop who was selling training approvals without having 1 second of training.

 

[miles71]

I’m not sure what is required in the class. How much range instruction is included? I was under the impression most is classroom (can be virtual for sure).

16 hours, minimum range time is a 25 round qualification. Range time is not required to be a certain amount of time.

I taught kids virtually during covid, it was a mess. Something hands on, were you need to see competence, is not a good fit for virtual. In my classes I want to interact, discuss, and get a general feel for the participants and their comfort level with the materials. That cannot be done very well in a virtual situation.

TD

 

[Blaster229]

16 hours, minimum range time is a 25 round qualification. Range time is not required to be a certain amount of time.

I taught kids virtually during covid, it was a mess. Something hands on, were you need to see competence, is not a good fit for virtual. In my classes I want to interact, discuss, and get a general feel for the participants and their comfort level with the materials. That cannot be done very well in a virtual situation.

TD

When I helped 3rd RCN Terry(RIP), the range day was all day and we did A LOT of shooting and scenarios. Was a great time.

 

[camo556]

The 16 hours of training consists of:
* 1 hour of legal advice,
* 1 hour of carry advice (holsters etc),
* 1 hour of familiarity with various firearms and ammo
* 1 hour of laser dry fire practice,
* 1 hour of malfunction drills,
* 1 hour of qualification (everyone passed with the 1 hour of laser dry fire),
* 1 hour getting everyone fingerprinted
* 9 hours of babysitting.

Most of which takes an hour only because of the large class size, and can be done online in 1/10 the time.

Also I want to add that jamming up a 15-person class with 5-6 people who already have other carry permits and are familiar with firearms detracts from teaching the remainder, who might actually need the instructional time.

 

[miles71]

The 16 hours of training consists of:
* 1 hour of legal advice,
* 1 hour of carry advice (holsters etc),
* 1 hour of familiarity with various firearms and ammo
* 1 hour of laser dry fire practice,
* 1 hour of malfunction drills,
* 1 hour of qualification (everyone passed with the 1 hour of laser dry fire),
* 1 hour getting everyone fingerprinted
* 9 hours of babysitting.

Most of which takes an hour only because of the large class size, and can be done online in 1/10 the time.

Also I want to add that jamming up a 15-person class with 5-6 people who already have other carry permits and are familiar with firearms detracts from teaching the remainder, who might actually need the instructional time.

I hope everyone knows you are not quoting any official requirements. And that is not the way a course should be done. But it is funny in a way.
TD

 

[miles71]

When I helped 3rd RCN Terry(RIP), the range day was all day and we did A LOT of shooting and scenarios. Was a great time.

I was there for some you helped with, and my class is a direct descendent of things I learned from his and other courses. My day 2 is 4-5 hours of range time minimum with drills, scenarios, and demonstrations on how to improve.

TD

 

[GTOGUNNER]

The biggest problem with 16 hours is the time spent on the law portion which can or does change once a year. 16 hours is clearly too long. Plus the teacher to student ratio is expected to be at least 1 to 5.


Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

[Slackdaddy]

The biggest problem with 16 hours is the time spent on the law portion which can or does change once a year. 16 hours is clearly too long. Plus the teacher to student ratio is expected to be at least 1 to 5.


Sent from an undisclosed location.

Think about it,,, The "legal" portion is irrelevant when a shop owner is charged with murder from defending himself from 2 assailants, one of whom stabbed him.
Most areas of MD are no different from NYC,, If you are "non minority", Male, law abiding,, And you defend yourself,, you WILL be charged.

 

[huesmann]

One of the biggest challenges is creating a course that is a good fit for the crazy variations for experience levels. The only way I would teach true beginners the W&C course is if they are all true beginners at the same level. The vast majority of people who contact me for W&C have some sort of experience. TD

Only way you'd be able to do that is with a group who'd all never fired a shot before. Otherwise, everyone will have some differing level in shooting experience. You just need to teach your class to the lowest common denominator. If that means folk with more experience are a bit bored, them's the breaks—as long as you're teaching the proper syllabus. Heck, even when teaching people with zero experience in X subject, there are those who'll pick up the teaching faster than others anyway, and will have different levels of learning by the end of the class.

 

[miles71]

Only way you'd be able to do that is with a group who'd all never fired a shot before. Otherwise, everyone will have some differing level in shooting experience. You just need to teach your class to the lowest common denominator. If that means folk with more experience are a bit bored, them's the breaks—as long as you're teaching the proper syllabus. Heck, even when teaching people with zero experience in X subject, there are those who'll pick up the teaching faster than others anyway, and will have different levels of learning by the end of the class.

Agree with most of this, this is were my experience as an educator for the past 25+ year helps a lot. I only ask student have some sort of experience and are familiar with their firearm to take the Permit course. I hope everyone, no matter the experience, learns something. I also enjoy teaching brand new shooters, but would do a class for them as a group in their own.

TD

 

[Sloopjonb]

my instructor sent out an email informing everyone that it is illegal to try to "shorten " the course by less that what md. requires .

Wow here in Tennessee we had 3 hrs in the morning of class and hour to get to the range and eat and hour and a half of shooting and we were done. 50 rounds not 25 but there were only 6 of us at the time and it was 95 deg outside.

 

[Ulfson]

FFS!

We've just gained (whether won or given) a mile, and people are trying to cheat out a few inches. Getting rid of G&S (or making self defense qualify) has been our rallying cry for...well, as long as I can remember. There's even a fairly big local 2A organization named for it We got that. WE GOT IT! But for some it isn't enough...already. Look, if they don't want to take the training, they don't have to take the training...they can just wait and bitch as though Bruen never happened. Plenty of others will go through the training (if they haven't already), get their permits, and make MD safer for the reluctant anyway. Or, better yet, don't cheat the training. Beat the training. Get it removed legislatively (good luck with that) to make the win complete for everyone.

Honestly, I might have more respect for folks who went all in on WWNC and carried whatever they wanted wherever they wanted to facing whatever consequences there might be.

What's going to happen when the first loophole trained ccwer has a "whoopsie" that demonstrates the current required training obviously isn't enough? Thirty two hours for the rest of us? Yearly?

Why can't we just celebrate the massive windfall as it is?

I agree.
I just came from training at "Cindy's Hot Shots" with instructor John Merson. I left law enforcement after 30 years a few years ago. When I found out Maryland wanted me to apply for a license and prove "good & substantial" after carrying for 30 years on and off duty in DC- I started leaving my gun at home in the safe- pure disgusted with the bs. When this Supreme Court decision came down and Hogan cleared the way, I happily started my application and signed up for the class which was very well done, even enjoyable. I look forward to taking my place amongst an armed citizenry while toting their silly little credential.

 

[eruby]

.... and Hogan cleared the way .....

Fat Larry didn't do anything

That cowering RINO acted like a 2A hero, but most of us here know he is a piece of shit

 

[Phoenix_1295]

<snip> a class for people who are very new to firearms and maybe a course that covers liability issues in the event of the use of deadly force for experienced shooters,etc. <snip>

I would be a bit concerned about a beginner or "very new to firearms" person being in the final stages of obtaining a carry permit. (I consider taking a Maryland W&C course being in final stages of applying for a permit.) By the time someone is considering carrying a firearm, they should be proficient at firearms safety, firearms handling, and shooting with accuracy.

 

[jr88]

I would be a bit concerned about a beginner or "very new to firearms" person being in the final stages of obtaining a carry permit. (I consider taking a Maryland W&C course being in final stages of applying for a permit.) By the time someone is considering carrying a firearm, they should be proficient at firearms safety, firearms handling, and shooting with accuracy.

While I agree, it is not a perfect world and we can't argue it is a Constitutional Right then turn around and try to put certain caveats on this Right. You can be sure there are more people carrying firearms with little to no experience than there are qualified. Lots of folks with no real carry experience will be getting permits...period.

 

[Blaster229]

I agree.
I just came from training at "Cindy's Hot Shots" with instructor John Merson. I left law enforcement after 30 years a few years ago. When I found out Maryland wanted me to apply for a license and prove "good & substantial" after carrying for 30 years on and off duty in DC- I started leaving my gun at home in the safe- pure disgusted with the bs. When this Supreme Court decision came down and Hogan cleared the way, I happily started my application and signed up for the class which was very well done, even enjoyable. I look forward to taking my place amongst an armed citizenry while toting their silly little credential.

Why don't you carry under LEOSA?

 

[Ulfson]

Why don't you carry under LEOSA?

Because until this Supreme Court decision Maryland extended LEOSA - no strings attached- to those who retired from a MARYLAND law enforcement agency and/or a FEDERAL one. The rest of us, DC included, even though I lived in Maryland the whole time, had to provide/prove the: "good and substantial" reason to assert that Right. I thought it was BS, so I left my gun in a safe and went about my business resolved to do no more than call 911 and be a witness. Their loss, my gain. And a ton less liability.
Now that regular folks in this disenfranchised territory are finally being allowed to exercise their 2A rights with a few less hurdles placed in front of their progress, I figured I'd join their ranks.

 

[teratos]

I would be a bit concerned about a beginner or "very new to firearms" person being in the final stages of obtaining a carry permit. (I consider taking a Maryland W&C course being in final stages of applying for a permit.) By the time someone is considering carrying a firearm, they should be proficient at firearms safety, firearms handling, and shooting with accuracy.

Yes, and people should voluntarily get training.

 

[Ulfson]

Fat Larry didn't do anything

That cowering RINO acted like a 2A hero, but most of us here know he is a piece of shit

Mr. Eruby,
I don't take issue with your assessment- but I was happy he told the State Police to stop ***** footing around and start processing our applications. Otherwise they'd have stayed hidden behind the "our legal team is assessing the issue" stall until a court case smoked them out- and that might have taken months.