POLL: Unlicensed Gun Dealers

[~Trigger~]

Which brings up another question.....

For those of you who prefer zero regulations on gun sales....what are your thoughts Fast & Furious, and the govt's sale of firearms to criminals?

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

If I may use an analogy or 2.....

>Sure if a crook really wants to break into our homes, he's gonna find a way to do it, one way or another. But that doesnt mean we're just going to leave our doors unlocked, and offer them unresticted access to our homes.

Thats my 2-bits

Well that shows that someone committed a crime with the intent to deprive someone else of their life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness.

Possession of an object does none of those things in and of itself.

Let me pose a scenario for you. There is a thread on here about a young mother who shot and killed a home intruder. By all accounts it was justified and necessary.

Suppose that a similar young mother showed youthful indiscretion. She drove drunk at some point and injured her friend in the passenger seat. That violation afforded her a two year suspended sentence in her state (as an adult) and by law she is no longer allowed to posses a firearm. Suppose she goes on to abide by the terms of her probation and is eventually released from the judicial system. She mends her ways, gets married, becomes a productive citizen. Does she not have a right to defend herself with a firearm? According to current law, and your logic, she does not.

I offer another example.

I know a guy who is 46 years old. He has a family, educated, well spoken, charismatic. Doesn't do drugs, doesn't drink, goes to church regularly. His wife is a school teacher, he drives a truck. The reason he drives a truck is because no one else will hire him with his record. As a youth he robbed a few banks, got caught, did a 7 year bit, got out and stopped using drugs.

Now he did his time. He did some horrible things as a drug addict. He committed a violent crime by robbing banks (used a bomb note). I do not condone what he did. But I know the man that he has become. He has truly changed his ways. Why should he not be allowed to own a firearm?

This isn't a personal attack, and I hope it's not taken as such. I like differing opinions, it prompts healthy debate. I'm not afraid of guns. They are inanimate objects. What scares me is intent.

 

[BlackBart]

Which brings up another question.....

For those of you who prefer zero regulations on gun sales....what are your thoughts Fast & Furious, and the govt's sale of firearms to criminals?

Trick question?

 

[Ab_Normal]

That is why I said "violent criminals". I know other nonviolent crimes carry sentences that currently disqualify someone form firearm ownership.

Also, there is a process under which people can have ALL of their right restored after having a criminal past. That process needs to be streamlined for those who have truely changed their ways so they can be "whole" again.

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

That is why I said "violent criminals". I know other nonviolent crimes carry sentences that currently disqualify someone form firearm ownership.

Also, there is a process under which people can have ALL of their right restored after having a criminal past. That process needs to be streamlined for those who have truely changed their ways so they can be "whole" again.

Violent criminals can change their ways. The second scenario I described is considered a violent crime, he committed armed robbery, even if he wasn't "armed" with anything but a bogus note.

There is a process where one "can" have their rights restored, but it's rarely successful.

I know another guy, who is a firefighter, can't own a gun because of a suspended sentence on a telephone misuse charge from 15 years ago. His ex-wife (wife at the time) made some bogus charges against him and this was the only thing that could stick.

 

[Markp]

Well gents, I thank you for your responses, theyve been very interesting.

I for one, am NOT in favor of unrestricted gun sales, though. Despite coming here from a state with far more freedoms than Md, has. Requiring gun sales to be done by/or through an FFL does not in any way, restrict on my 2A rights, nor does it inhibit my ability to exercise those rights.

But it certainly could if it was decided that YOU were somehow not worthy of owning a firearm. Maybe you haven't noticed that more and more people are being deemed unworthy. The recent attempt to pass no fly/no buy rules are just one example. One day, you may be prohibited from purchasing a firearm, and what then, what will you do when like Australia or Great Britain, you are asked to surrender your firearms?

Certainly the worthless low-lives of this country are going to get their guns no matter what, and theyre gong to commit their crimes no matter what. But thats a sorry reason to hold the doors open for them.

I would hardly call it holding the door open, especially when the federal government is all too willing to lend a hand to ENSURE that firearms are going to violent Mexican drug smugglers and their associates. By regulating firearms you encourage the use of more exotic firearms by criminals who face the same punishment for possession of a handgun or a machine gun. I know if I were a criminal, I'd make sure I had a full auto.

Sure if a crook really wants to break into our homes, he's gonna find a way to do it, one way or another. But that doesnt mean we're just going to leave our doors unlocked, and offer them unresticted access to our homes.

Does it matter if he/she broke your glass to gain entry?

Sure if some worthless lowlife wants to cause harm to us and our loved ones, he is gonna find a way to do it, one way or another. But that doesnt mean we are going to disarm ourselves, and let them have free reign over us.

When you allow the government the power to disarm you, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT ACCOMPLISHES?

See NYC, DC, MD, NJ and California.

You are disarmed, EVERYDAY. You can't carry in MD unless you are a criminal, a cop, or meet very arbitrary requirements. How does that work for you?

We cherish our 2A rights, and its in our nature to guard and protect everything that we cherish. We protect our rights from the gov't, then we also must protect our rights from those within our ranks, who stand to undermine those rights.

Clearly you don't get it, 2A rights apply to all citizens at all times. You are attempting to convince others that this should not be the case, and that to me makes little sense. Slaves, Wards of the State, and Prisoners (Defined to include probationers and parolees) should not have access to firearms, that's it!

Unlicensed gun dealers pose an unecessary risk to us, while offering more fodder for the gun-grabbers, and the idiotic politicians, to use against us.

Thats my 2-bits

And your two bits are as wrong as could be. People like yourself and liberal nanny staters are the unnecessary risk to our 2A rights. Sorry, nothing personal, but I believe your logic to be flawed and your position wrong.

 

[~Trigger~]

Well gentlemen, I didnt much figure many of you were going to be happy with my response there, and youre all welcome to disagree with me as you wish.

But nonetheless, I vote No.

As much as I enjoy a stimulating debate, Im going to refrain from entering in to this one, because I already know it'll just go on forever, and likely, it will only drive a wedge between us, rather than bring us together.

I dont aim to try and change your minds, or get you to think as I do. Thats just not something that free men do.

 

[~Trigger~]

Trick question?

Nope, just a curiosity.

 

[Markp]

I dont aim to try and change your minds, or get you to think as I do. Thats just not something that free men do.

 

[Jester1341]

too much to quote and answer, but i dont think its wrong that people buy and sell even alot....its more when it gets to the relm of people sucking up deals and rasing the price and never actually useing/enjoying said gun(s). its also not 'wrong' in my book its more that those types dont really relate to how i see guns[ie not a commodity. i know some do but thats fine i just dont.

i also see this kinda thing leading to shady deals people my not normally make but getting more and more comfortable may slip that way.

and if you completely sway that anything anyone anytime....what about people selling 'thier' children for sex.... or selling drugs.....or drugs to kids.

im not saying there is a conection between gun salesmen and pimps!....so dont read that.

john

 

[Markp]

and if you completely sway that anything anyone anytime....what about people selling 'thier' children for sex.... or selling drugs.....or drugs to kids.

john

You don't have a right to selling your children for sex, you do have a right to keep and bear arms... try and stay on topic and not throwing out invalid arguments.

What do selling firearms and pimping children have in common, seriously?

Finally, are you so afraid of others enjoying freedom that you are willing to sacrifice your own freedom to control the actions of others???

 

[jpk1md]

Which brings up another question.....

For those of you who prefer zero regulations on gun sales....what are your thoughts Fast & Furious, and the govt's sale of firearms to criminals?

I don't think Gov should be in the business of undercutting private industry.

Other than that the whole operation was one big CF that never would have occurred without this absurd war on drugs