Poll: Are Suicide Attempts Enough to Take Your Guns?

[tzoid]

I voted yes....If someone is Ill enough to take their own life they most likely are at a point where they could care less about anyone elses life.

Mentally Ill people Kill themselves and should not own Firearms...This poll alarms me and the people that voted NO concern me.

We had a member Blow is Brains out and if those close to him knew he was that lost and depressed I can assure you they would have removed his guns from his home. Maybe he would have jumped off a Bridge but at least it would not have been another Guin related Killing and his friends would have done all they could.

 

[Seagrave1963]

gprimr1 -- that is just eerie - I was typing nearly the same reply you did.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Voted "No".

I will always believe suicide and homicide are tragedies that should be prevented but we don't need more gun control laws and if we can take away people's guns when they attempt suicide, what about their cars, or their rope, or their medications, or their knives, or their__(fill in the blank).

 

[tzoid]

Again...someone that cares so little about their own life Most Likely cares less about others lives....... They have No business owning Firearms at that point.... Imagine having someone that attempted Suicide and was allowed to own Firearms went F'ing nuts and opened Fire on a crowd and someone you loved was Murdered.... Do you still think it's OK for this Sick Person to Legally Own a Firearm?

 

[Goldslammer]

I voted yes, I've lost 4 friends/relatives to suicides, and I'm sure that influenced my decision.

 

[Ethan83]

Again...someone that cares so little about their own life Most Likely cares less about others lives....... They have No business owning Firearms at that point.... Imagine having someone that attempted Suicide and was allowed to own Firearms went F'ing nuts and opened Fire on a crowd and someone you loved was Murdered.... Do you still think it's OK for this Sick Person to Legally Own a Firearm?

...Wut?

The question was about suicide, not mass homicide. Those with suicidal tendencies may or may not be completely insane maniacs. If they are completely insane maniacs, then yes, they should probably be institutionalized somewhere where they don't have access to any weapons or anything dangerous, much less guns. But that's not what the question was. Unless you think anybody with depression or suicidal thoughts should be locked up and institutionalized? That's not very pro-liberty, now is it?

This is a very clear case of "safety vs liberty". I prefer the latter. Those that prefer the former should probably register under a party starting with the letter 'D'. If your party starts with an 'R', you're liable to be labeled as 'crazy', which is apparently a clear and unquestionable justification for your natural rights to be stripped from you. So run, do not walk, to you nearest election board!

 

[Lex Armarum]

I voted yes....If someone is Ill enough to take their own life they most likely are at a point where they could care less about anyone elses life.

Mentally Ill people Kill themselves and should not own Firearms...This poll alarms me and the people that voted NO concern me.

We had a member Blow is Brains out and if those close to him knew he was that lost and depressed I can assure you they would have removed his guns from his home. Maybe he would have jumped off a Bridge but at least it would not have been another Guin related Killing and his friends would have done all they could.

See, tzoid's post (and subsequent post) is a perfect example of why confiscation is a bad thing. Define "sick." Define "mentally ill." Tell us who determines status. Remember, white middle-class constitution-loving business-owning independent individuals are most likely terrorists. Do you really want the same folks who made the aforementioned determination also determining whether you are mentally stable enough to possess firearms? Also, as for the age old adage, "What about cars?" Cars are just as lethal and just as effective at killing people as firearms. Should we also suspend a person's license to drive and impound their vehicle, place them on a national watch list to prevent them from renting a car, etc in an effort to prevent them from committing suicide by driving through a crowd of people and them slamming themselves into some immovable object?

As for those folks who think that "temporary confiscation" is an option. Consider this: approx. 7 years ago a man in Rockville was having a suicidal moment and called a help-line. He didn't speak to anyone, rather he hung up the moment someone picked up the line. The hotline operator, fearing the worst, notified the police who secured the caller's location and raided his home. The gentleman was detained and submitted for 72 hr. observation and his firearms were confiscated. When it was determined that he was not a threat to himself or others (in other words, when they released him 72 hrs later) the police refused to give back his firearms. This gentleman had to sue in U.S. District Court to recover his property (including several NFA items); it took him several years to get his firearms returned and then only reluctantly.

See the Rockville police wanted to institute their own regimen for return and ownership of firearms. This regimen was more strict than Maryland's criteria. The Court ruled that a political subdivision of a State could not legislate firearms ownership criteria more strict than that of the State.

Now consider all of the problems with this scenario and then compare that with any general confiscation policy that we would see come out of the legislature. 1. The man may or may not have been suicidal. The decision on whether someone is "really" suicidal is subjective and completely in the discretion of the shrink conducting the assessment (ahem paid experts and all that); 2. This gentleman was detained and only held for 72 hours after which he was determined "safe" and released, I don't know about you but I'd hate to have to deal with a scenario where the police could adjudicate my mental stability any time they had suspicions about my mental condition and how long must someone been detained to determine whether they are safe; 3. when the gentleman was released, the police and county were loathe to return this gentleman's firearms despite the shrinks at county granting him a clean bill of health; 4. the growth of government as a result of a policy such as this would be horrendous and expensive.

There's just too much room for error here to justify the policy. This is the same exact discussion as "reasonable restrictions on ownership." Don't let your grief over a forum member's death, or a family member's death, put you in a frame of mind where you grant the state the right to curtail your rights when you are emotional and irrational. Grief stricken people do and say crazy things, perhaps the state should "temporarily" confiscate the firearms of anyone who has had a death in the family and is taking it especially hard?

EDIT: I know what I said above is harsh, perhaps its the attorney coming out in me; but it needs to be said. I can't tell you how many times I've seen grief stricken family members act out violently at other family members or threaten other people when they're dealing with the loss of a loved one.

 

[MD=What 2nd Amendment?]

I thought about this for a while and although I am far far right on 2A I still think that a suicidal person creates an enhanced risk to themselves and the public and falls outside of the protection of 2A as felons, mentally ill, druggies and alcoholics don't have the protection either.

I thought about this for a while because if they don't use a gun they could use something else like a knife, hang themselves, overdose, etc ultimately to end their lives.

Okay but lets be honest, anti gunners will love this and I can't even believe I am about to say this but, a suicidal or homicidal person can do a lot more damage with a handgun or assualt rifle than they can a knife. Don't take that the absolute wrong way which I am sure a few will. I will never vote for any politician that would introduce bills that would take weapons of ANY type out of the hands of law abiding and mentally competant citizens. I however support legislation that reduces a felon, mentally-ill, etc from obtaining a firearm as long as it does not infringe upon law abiding citizens protected rights.

Suicidal individuals are almost always very depressed and that indicates a mental disorder in which a medical professional should be able to deem the individual unstable to possess firearms until they are cleared as being stable enough to not present an enhanced risk to the community. Many people who commit suicide never tell anyone they are going to do it. If they are at a point that they are telling someone they intend to harm themselves then they are asking for help.

 

[Ethan83]

I however support legislation that reduces a felon, mentally-ill, etc from obtaining a firearm as long as it does not infringe upon law abiding citizens protected rights.

I didn't know being mentally ill was a criminal offense.

 

[MD=What 2nd Amendment?]

I didn't know being mentally ill was a criminal offense.

Meh I addressed it somewhere else in the text but mistyped it there.

Look through the rest of the text. I stated law abiding and mentally competent elsewhere. It's 1:30am give me a break.

EDIT: Actually it was right above it. The sentence before the statement you highlighted.

 

[Ethan83]

Meh I addressed it somewhere else in the text but mistyped it there.

Look through the rest of the text. I stated law abiding and mentally competent elsewhere. It's 1:30am give me a break.

EDIT: Actually it was right above it. The sentence before the statement you highlighted.

Fair 'nuff. So you have faith in politicians being able to decide who is "mentally competent" to own a firearm? I find that to be a curious position to take. You do know what DHS and Big Sis have been saying about "right-wing extremists," right?

 

[hole punch]

I vote no, because it is your right to take your own life should you chose to; it is, afterall, YOUR life to do with what you want.

suicide ≠ murder

 

[hole punch]

surprised to see that "no" is the (barely) prevailing choice here.

 

[Brychan]

NO again this people seeing the tool as the problem. If the person is the problem remove them so they can get help, leave the firearms alone. While a gun maybe the choice of tool to take their life there are many other tools available. For those who argue that that a suicidal person may pose a danger to others are you also going to take their car keys, gasoline, sharp objects, and any other things which they could use harm another or that could get the police to shoot them (suicide by cop)?

 

[Ruzo]

Gotta say yes, if one is nuts enough to not value his own life he's certainly nuts enough to take the poor bastard standing next to him. It ain't that hard people.

At first with out even giving it a great deal of thought I voted No. Because alot of times an attempt to take ones life is more of an attempt to gain more attention. But, if a person is truly at the end of their rope. Felling like they don't care,and there's nothing left to live for.
That can be a scary individual. Another end of the spectrum are those who have lost, and feel not only is it the end of the line for them, but for the ones who caused the loss or pain. The thought "I'm going, and I'm taking you all with me" type. So this is a real tough one to call. Because every situation is different.

 

[StantonCree]

2. Second thought that comes to mind is that the nature of the suicide attempt could encompass a number of methods and therefore, if you follow the idea of confiscating one's firearms because of a suicide attempt, you must also confiscate any manner of objects that one could use to off one's self. If someone attempts suicide by aspirin, should we then confiscate that person's guns and all of the aspirin in the house; create a watch-list registration for aspirin and created "prohibited person" categories for aspirin purchases?"QUOTE]

I generally agree with most of what you say rusty, and think your pretty level headed, but this one has me kind of puzzled. I am not sure how I feel on the actual OP yet but I don't think anyone would actually take it that far. Plus I would think the counter to this would be that if someones wants to take their own life hey do what you wanna but guns give you the ability to take others out with you (I know here comes the comments about knives and such but look at most of the school shootings). When I mention the school shootings I am fully away that they can bring in knives and do the same thing. A lot of the time suicide is proceeded by murder or the whole suicide by cop thing.

Again I really don't know how I feel about the issue yet just playing the other guy role here. This is a tough ? to answer. My thoughts aren't really put together at 3am but I hope you get the jist.

 

[StantonCree]

I mean there are multiple types of suicidal persons........the depressed guy.......the physicall ill.......the mentally unstable. I am going to say this though the depressed guy I fully think we should take his away for a short period of time and try to get him to understand that it's s permnant solution to a temporary problem and if eventually then let him make his own decisions but I wouldn't even begin to know what time frame to set up or how to impliment it.

 

[Ethan83]

Means vs Ends, people. This usually only confuses liberals.

 

[JOBU]

If it ain't, then it ought to be. A person with suicidal tendencies are dangerous not only to themselves, but perhaps to others. I'd have no problem with prohibiting such a person from having a firearm.

 

[K31]

No. First, what's an attempt?

If someone is morbidly obese is that attempted suicide? Could be, but who's to say. As Rusty pointed out psychology isn't a science.

And suicidal people are more homicidal? Really? You mean to others or themselves? And if not to just themselves, more homicidal than who? Murderers? It seems like if some one wants to do a murder/suicide they need to do the murder part first, so most people who survive a suicide attempt either never attempted murder or are already attempted (or successful murderers) who are ineligible for firearms ownership.