Police Shootings, and what we can learn.

[4g64loser]

I would also submit that “drop the weapon” should register as anything in your hands including a cell phone, wallet, etc. Thinking “it’s not a weapon” and holding it up for the officer to see probably won’t end well either. You can get a new phone.

On the officers PERSONAL dollar unless he's got a damn good reason to be arresting me. I've been mishandled by cops and I have a healthy skepticism of the majority of them. If I'm doing nothing illegal and you **** with me, you have demonstrated that you are willing to ignore the law. Since you have set the terms of engagement as such, don't expect me to be abiding by the law when accosted by a badge toting criminal.

 

[4g64loser]

Definitely.

"amygdala hijack" is some interesting reading.

By the allegedly trained and professional police.

 

[teratos]

By the allegedly trained and professional police.

The amygdala loop is caused by anxiety/adrenaline/fear. Staying calm in some situations is going to be easier for some people than others. Maybe some of the 5-0 here can tell us whether there is any training for staying calm in these situations. The more anxious and afraid officer friendly is, the more likely he/she is to mistake your purple dildo for a gun....

 

[Threeband]

I’m assuming you have seen the full video. I can’t say what happened. The video froze right before things went bad. Is there a full video? Was he armed? Why were the police arresting them, what was the call?
Thanks

Shooting of Daniel Shaver - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[4g64loser]

The amygdala loop is caused by anxiety/adrenaline/fear. Staying calm in some situations is going to be easier for some people than others. Maybe some of the 5-0 here can tell us whether there is any training for staying calm in these situations. The more anxious and afraid officer friendly is, the more likely he/she is to mistake your purple dildo for a gun....

I know what the hijack is. I'm simply stating that I will not accept it as an excuse by supposedly trained persons who initiate contact with me. If someone sets the terms of engagement as disrespect and unlawful, don't complain when I reciprocate. If I can gain advantage and take an adversary (as the person has demonstrated themselves to be) that maximizes my survival. And the purple dildo will not come with complementary lubricant. It is the Dildo of Consequences and it never arrived lubed.

 

[teratos]

I know what the hijack is. I'm simply stating that I will not accept it as an excuse by supposedly trained persons who initiate contact with me. If someone sets the terms of engagement as disrespect and unlawful, don't complain when I reciprocate. If I can gain advantage and take an adversary (as the person has demonstrated themselves to be) that maximizes my survival. And the purple dildo will not come with complementary lubricant. It is the Dildo of Consequences and it never arrived lubed.

I figured you did. More for others. Not a popular term.

 

[linkstate]

On the officers PERSONAL dollar unless he's got a damn good reason to be arresting me. I've been mishandled by cops and I have a healthy skepticism of the majority of them. If I'm doing nothing illegal and you **** with me, you have demonstrated that you are willing to ignore the law. Since you have set the terms of engagement as such, don't expect me to be abiding by the law when accosted by a badge toting criminal.

I hear you. I’m just saying if an officer is shouting at me to drop the weapon in some hypothetical scenario, I’m assuming he or an unseen partner is pointing a gun at me or fixing to. In that instant, I’m not going to care about my phone that I just dropped on the concrete.

Once everything is calmed down, go from there.

I’ve had multiple interactions with law enforcement. Mostly through a traffic stop or me calling about something. Mostly positive.

One anecdote:
I called one night because I heard a banging sound at a building that is behind my house. I explained what I heard, where it sounded like it was coming from and if somebody could check it out. I was asked if it sounded like gun shots and I said I couldn’t be sure but it could be somebody throwing stuff into a dumpster. This was way after business hours.

An officer shows up and he’s immediately aggressive with me. Saying neighbors called saying there is loud banging coming from my house and what am I up to. I kept my hands visible and calmly explained that I am the one who called, gave him my name, what I told dispatch and offered to go get my ID. Everything ended up fine but whatever dispatch relayed got twisted somehow.

I also believe in the adage, you can beat the rap but you won’t beat the ride.

 

[JohnnyE]

This shows the shots.

Officer commands Shafer to put and keep his hands in the air, then orders him to crawl toward him. Shafer gets on all fours and crawls and the officer opens fire.

G_d D__n it! Crawling is done on all fours, which Shafer did. Officer should have ordered Shafer to walk on his knees toward jhim,

Body Cam Footage Of Arizona Cop Fatally Shooting Unarmed Man Daniel Shaver!

A police officer was acquitted Thursday of the "execution"-style killing of an unarmed man who was pleading for his life, setting off more outrage over another cop getting off despite graphic evidence to convict. <Br><br> Philip "Mitch" Brailsford was found not guilty of second-degree murder...

vidmax.com

 

[linkstate]

Definitely.

"amygdala hijack" is some interesting reading.

Just googled it. Looks like interesting reading.

 

[Blaster229]

I’m assuming you have seen the full video. I can’t say what happened. The video froze right before things went bad. Is there a full video? Was he armed? Why were the police arresting them, what was the call?
Thanks

He wasn't armed. He was a nervous 17 yo kid trying to pull his pants up because his ass was showing. The threat/issue was in a room behind him from where they both came out from.

Lemme tell you what, I challenge anyone to pull a pistol out of the back of your drawers and get a shot on a cop drawn down on you just like this before he can pull a trigger, then you are John Wick. Totally uncalled for. I hope this cop is bothered by this for the rest of his life.

 

[4g64loser]

I figured you did. More for others. Not a popular term.

I don't bother using the term because I not medically qualified to explain it technically and correctly but I address the symptoms when trainees shoot me during class (I like being a bad guy during ASR and also I see it when otherwise good shooters face actual scenario players). I call the ones who shoot the good guy/non-threat actor Canadians because they invariably apologize as soon as they realize they effed up. I should get canadian flag stickers made up.

They know that no harm (ok, maybe a small amount of pain) will come to them, that the encounter is a training environment, and that an encounter is forthcoming. The situation is as good as it gets. People still shoot the wrong person/shoot with no legit threat present.

If I'm in that situation live and the cop is clearly mentally unstable (amygdala hijack or otherwise) they are a threat actor to me and will be treated as one. My survival is the priority. End of story.

 

[4g64loser]

He wasn't armed. He was a nervous 17 yo kid trying to pull his pants up because his ass was showing. The threat/issue was in a room behind him from where they both came out from.

Lemme tell you what, I challenge anyone to pull a pistol out of the back of your drawers and get a shot on a cop drawn down on you just like this before he can pull a trigger, then you are John Wick. Totally uncalled for. I hope this cop is bothered by this for the rest of his life.

We should do a couple videos of attempting to draw on drop. That would illustrate the concept better than any explanation.

 

[teratos]

We should do a couple videos of attempting to draw on drop. That would illustrate the concept better than any explanation.

This would be good.

 

[Blaster229]

We should do a couple videos of attempting to draw on drop. That would illustrate the concept better than any explanation.

Enthusiastic, but you know as well as I do, it's a waste of time. But fun tho.

 

[Blaster229]

On the drop is impossible. Gun pointed at you and if you can see the side of their head, that gives you about 1/8 of a second gain. Pointed at you but you see the back of their head, you get a good extra 3/4 of a second. Provided you have a good, reliable 1 second draw.
The bad guy determines when you shoot, and those are you go times, if you have the willingness to commit.

 

[4g64loser]

This would be good.

I get shot enough (obviously not with real bullets, that crap hurts too much). I'm game to let Blaster blast me.

Enthusiastic, but you know as well as I do, it's a waste of time. But fun tho.

It's more about proving that these cops who are using these ******** excuses are simply poorly trained criminals. I'll let you shoot me in a FoF environment for that any day.

I've successfully managed to get a gun out on people who have drop on me and even shot a couple but always by employing a headgame or movement. And I always get shot too unless I can move behind cover immediately. From the submissive position this child was in, there is absolutely no way he could have been a threat to the cop. He could be Blaster fast and he'd never manage to get a shot off. He had no cover anywhere near him and the officer had every advantage.

 

[4g64loser]

I'm the guy in submissive position with a gun pointed at his brain stem. The guy with the gun is a coworker. He has me at complete disadvantage as I cannot see.him, reach for any tools, or even move effectively without being shot.

Positioning is key. Remove the advantage of sight from the subject if at all possible.

 

[Bob A]

He wasn't armed. He was a nervous 17 yo kid trying to pull his pants up because his ass was showing. The threat/issue was in a room behind him from where they both came out from.

Lemme tell you what, I challenge anyone to pull a pistol out of the back of your drawers and get a shot on a cop drawn down on you just like this before he can pull a trigger, then you are John Wick. Totally uncalled for. I hope this cop is bothered by this for the rest of his life.

What I learned from the links is that the kid and the officer who shot him were both 26 yrs old.

The threat was found to have been a pellet rifle, the sight of which apparently panicked someone who saw it and called he police.

If one can't remain mentally collected when you perceive a threat, one shouldn't be a police officer.

Don't they screen for this sort of thing? Hard to believe a jury acquitted him of 2nd degree murder.

 

[Bob A]

The site "Active Self Protection" (ASP) was recommended to me by my CCW instructor. It doesn't limit itself to police interactions, provides commentary, and is informative and useful in stimulating awareness of problematic situations.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsE_m2z1NrvF2ImeNWh84mw/videos

 

[StantonCree]

I’m adding this here just cuz the dudes a hero but they released the Texas police BWC for the guy shooting up the mall. The officer is legit kindly teaching kids to wear seatbelts and being officer friendly when the shots go off. He grabs his rifle and solo located the shooter and smokes him. Freaking hero!