Pistol Brace Rule - Nation Wide Injunction?

[Worsley]

SBRs should have been removed from the NFA the same time pistols were.

100% agree! But better now than never!

 

[teratos]

SBRs should have been removed from the NFA the same time pistols were.

29” is discriminatory. It’s not how long it is…it’s what you do with it.

 

[thomfantomas]

I was totally oblivious to this! But hell ******* yeah!

I was a FPC member anyways,so....

 

[Stoveman]

Me to everyone, many on this forum, who registered their braced pistols.

 

[teratos]

Me to everyone, many on this forum, who registered their braced pistols.



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I would have registered everything….if I had any.

 

[spoon059]

Me to everyone, many on this forum, who registered their braced pistols.



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Why?

 

[thomfantomas]

Me to everyone, many on this forum, who registered their braced pistols.



View attachment 439827

they were uncertain hehhehehhehehheh

 

[thomfantomas]

Why?

You need to ask the atf for permission to transport your now sbr accross statelines.

 

[Worsley]

You need to ask the atf for permission to transport your now sbr accross statelines.

Exactly.... May as well pin and weld a can on it so you can travel throughout the USA.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

You need to ask the atf for permission to transport your now sbr accross statelines.

You do realize that the ATF rubber stamp approves all 5320.20 forms, unless you screwed up the form or are wanting to transport into a state that the NFA item is prohibited by state law.

Ask me how I know about all this....

 

[Worsley]

You do realize that the ATF rubber stamp approves all 5320.20 forms, unless you screwed up the form or are wanting to transport into a state that the NFA item is prohibited by state law.

Ask me how I know about all this...

Ok, lets you and I drive across state line now, me with my with my pistol and you with your SBR following all law and statue and lets see who crosses the state line first?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Ok, lets you and I drive across state line now, me with my with my pistol and you with your SBR following all law and statue and lets see who crosses the state line first?

Sure. Let's go do it right now. I submitted all my 5320.20 forms to cover at will travel for the whole calendar year for numerous states my friends live in.

Oh... that's something not many people know about....

 

[Worsley]

Sure. Let's go do it right now. I submitted all my 5320.20 forms to cover at will travel for the whole calendar year for numerous states my friends live in.

Oh... that's something not many people know about....

Cool, so a 5320 only needs to be done once for every state or once per SBR?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Cool, so a 5320 only needs to be done once for every state or once per SBR?

One per address, per SBR, you wish to travel to that is outside of the state the item resides in. Your parents house in PA, your friends house in TN, your friend in WV, etc... You can list 3 items per 5320.20 for submission.

Under dates you tell them 1/1/20xx-12/31/20xx.

The reason for transport "ALL LAWFUL PURPOSES". It is valid for the whole calendar year at that point.

 

[Occam]

But do those freebie stamps truly end up treating the pistol as an SBR? If the entire rule (and the stamp exception/process was PART of the rule/process) was declared BS because among other things its very formation violated the administrative procedures act, then isn't the whole thing, including those email-only "tax" stamps that were part of its spawn just a bad memory?

 

[DaemonAssassin]

But do those freebie stamps truly end up treating the pistol as an SBR? If the entire rule (and the stamp exception/process was PART of the rule/process) was declared BS because among other things its very formation violated the administrative procedures act, then isn't the whole thing, including those email-only "tax" stamps that were part of its spawn just a bad memory?

Hence the reason why those that applied, never got a real tax stamp. If the rule is thrown out, those "SBR's" don't exist anymore in theory.

 

[Harrys]

they were uncertain hehhehehhehehheh

 

[Terps2003]

So just trying to get some clarity here. Have read the decision and multiple threads, but does this cover stocks on SBRs or just braces? Meaning am I able add a stock to my Sig Spear 11.5" now under this rule or do I still need to file for a tax stamp?

 

[alucard0822]

But do those freebie stamps truly end up treating the pistol as an SBR? If the entire rule (and the stamp exception/process was PART of the rule/process) was declared BS because among other things its very formation violated the administrative procedures act, then isn't the whole thing, including those email-only "tax" stamps that were part of its spawn just a bad memory?

Hence the reason why those that applied, never got a real tax stamp. If the rule is thrown out, those "SBR's" don't exist anymore in theory.

The amnesty form 1s were tax exempt, not a new process, and equally valid to a form 1 that paid the tax and has a stamp. Pretty much every inherited NFA item, court ordered transfers, and NFA items transferred to government agencies use the same tax exempt process, and get an approved form just like the amnesty form 1s.

An NFA item only falls under the restrictions of the NFA while configured as an NFA item to include interstate transport. A form 20 is only required when transporting in the NFA configuration aka with a stock. Add a 16" barrel or take the stock off, and it is no longer an NFA item. Now that the rule has an injunction, a brace can be added and remain non NFA, as a brace no longer makes a pistol into an NFA item.

If you have an amnesty form 1 SBR, it is a legitimate SBR, the fact there is not a stamp on the form is the case with ALL tax exempt NFA forms, it is valid. It would be hugely problematic legally, and unprecedented for the ATF to declare approved forms are no longer valid. They were filed and approved in good faith, the ATF didn't have a distinction between a braced pistol and any other SBR, they considered braces to be stocks. The fact there was a period of time where braced pistols were eligible for a tax exempt form 1 does not make them now taxable, or the form 1s invalid.

Basically if you filed an amnesty form 1, you have an SBR, and have the ability to use it with a stock, or convert it to a pistol by removing the stock and adding a brace, or into a rifle by adding a 16" barrel. There is clear precedent it can be converted into non NFA configurations and back to NFA configurations at will.

So for me, one of the suckers that already had plenty of NFA stuff, and used the amnesty period to register braced pistols and make them into SBRs, I now have more options.

1. use as an SBR in my home state, add a stock, nice slim, less expensive, more comfortable than the brace it replaced.
2. file a form 20 to use as an SBR or transport to any other state where SBRs are lawful.
3. with the injuction I can re-attach a brace, the SBR has been converted to a handgun, can be sold as a non NFA item, can be transported as a non NFA item.
4. add a 16" barrel to convert my SBR to a non NFA rifle, can be sold or transported as a non NFA item.
4. Have a box of braces I can use to build new non NFA pistols all while flexing on the poors with a much larger collection of SBRs

For those that just kept their braced pistols, and did not submit form 1s

1. congrats, you now join Maxim customers, Texans, and FPC members in not being felons for possessing a braced pistol.
2. shoot, travel, and party like it's 2022
3. adding a stock would constitute building an NFA item and is unlawful without a form 1, and $200 tax unless NFA tax exempt.

Personally the entire NFA is unconstitutional BS, and I have 0 problems with anyone that did or didn't do the amnesty for 1s. I did for a couple reasons. Already had SBRs, an eform account, and everything needed to file in a few minutes at home. no engraving requirement, so no additional cost or trying to engrave some unique firearms. I prefer stocks to braces, although some of my braced pistols weren't worth $200 to slap a stock onto, but for 20 min and $0, I now have some unique SBRs. I still fight to stop the rule, and with the attention braced pistols and SBRs got, along with thousands more, there is a more compelling case for future court battles to repeal NFA in whole or part as SBRs are "in common use" and normalized far more than ever before. Saves thousands of $s going to the ATF and in turn funding them to prosecute people for a constitutional right. While it is a low priority I am and remain 100% lawful through the entire process, even though the laws are BS, I would rather donate to 2A groups to fight the ATF, and those the agency have wronged without having to ask for donations as a plaintiff myself.

 

[RRomig]

The amnesty form 1s were tax exempt, not a new process, and equally valid to a form 1 that paid the tax and has a stamp. Pretty much every inherited NFA item, court ordered transfers, and NFA items transferred to government agencies use the same tax exempt process, and get an approved form just like the amnesty form 1s.

An NFA item only falls under the restrictions of the NFA while configured as an NFA item to include interstate transport. A form 20 is only required when transporting in the NFA configuration aka with a stock. Add a 16" barrel or take the stock off, and it is no longer an NFA item. Now that the rule has an injunction, a brace can be added and remain non NFA, as a brace no longer makes a pistol into an NFA item.

If you have an amnesty form 1 SBR, it is a legitimate SBR, the fact there is not a stamp on the form is the case with ALL tax exempt NFA forms, it is valid. It would be hugely problematic legally, and unprecedented for the ATF to declare approved forms are no longer valid. They were filed and approved in good faith, the ATF didn't have a distinction between a braced pistol and any other SBR, they considered braces to be stocks. The fact there was a period of time where braced pistols were eligible for a tax exempt form 1 does not make them now taxable, or the form 1s invalid.

Basically if you filed an amnesty form 1, you have an SBR, and have the ability to use it with a stock, or convert it to a pistol by removing the stock and adding a brace, or into a rifle by adding a 16" barrel. There is clear precedent it can be converted into non NFA configurations and back to NFA configurations at will.

So for me, one of the suckers that already had plenty of NFA stuff, and used the amnesty period to register braced pistols and make them into SBRs, I now have more options.

1. use as an SBR in my home state, add a stock, nice slim, less expensive, more comfortable than the brace it replaced.
2. file a form 20 to use as an SBR or transport to any other state where SBRs are lawful.
3. with the injuction I can re-attach a brace, the SBR has been converted to a handgun, can be sold as a non NFA item, can be transported as a non NFA item.
4. add a 16" barrel to convert my SBR to a non NFA rifle, can be sold or transported as a non NFA item.
4. Have a box of braces I can use to build new non NFA pistols all while flexing on the poors with a much larger collection of SBRs

For those that just kept their braced pistols, and did not submit form 1s

1. congrats, you now join Maxim customers, Texans, and FPC members in not being felons for possessing a braced pistol.
2. shoot, travel, and party like it's 2022
3. adding a stock would constitute building an NFA item and is unlawful without a form 1, and $200 tax unless NFA tax exempt.

Great post