Pistol barrel locks

[kalister1]

"OR transferred with an external safety lock"
I think the " OR " makes it clear that as long as it leaves the store with a lock it's OK

 

[P-12 Norm]

Read that one again.
It discusses the gun being sold, transferred, offered for sale, etc... with a lock.
Nowhere does it mention a lock being sold so as long as the gun has when it is sold you are fine.
Nowhere does the law say you need to buy a lock nor does any 1 gun per lock law exist.

I did:

(c) (1) A dealer may not sell, offer for sale, rent, or transfer in the State a handgun manufactured on or before December 31, 2002, unless the handgun is sold, offered for sale, rented, or transferred with an external safety lock.

The "offered for sale with" part of the section, makes the sale inclusive with a lock. To me, it means it must be included with the sale.

 

[pop-gunner]

Norm,
show me where in the law it says you must buy a lock with every gun.
If I bring my own lock when I take delivery have we not followed the law?

 

[mikec]

OK guys, Norm is correct. Section C1 requires an external lock, like a cable lock. The cable lock does not meet the integral safety lock requirements.

C2 is the section that deals with the integral lock. C2 has no wording about where the integral lock, or the MSP approved lock comes from.

 

[CroftonBilly]

I had a .45 barrel lock from my first .45 purchase last year, and was able to walk in with it when I picked up my latest .45 in June. No need to buy another one.

A+ for Mark @ 2A and our other MDS industry partners.

 

[pop-gunner]

OK guys, Norm is correct. Section C1 requires an external lock, like a cable lock. The cable lock does not meet the integral safety lock requirements.

C2 is the section that deals with the integral lock. C2 has no wording about where the integral lock, or the MSP approved lock comes from.

That makes sense.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

The dealer may obtain the lock from any source

The "offered for sale with" part of the section, makes the sale inclusive with a lock. To me, it means it must be included with the sale.

Not exactly. The lock must be included with a handgun transfer, including transfers in which nothing at all is "offered for sale" by the Maryland dealer -- i.e., transfers in which the Maryland dealer is merely a transfer agent for a purchase from out of state (with certain exceptions, as discussed above). But as far as I can see, the law does not specify where the Maryland dealer may obtain the lock that he uses to fulfill this requirement. Certainly, it fulfills the law if he buys it from a lock dealer and then re-sells it to you, with or without a markup. It also fulfills the law if he buys a suitable lock at a yard sale on the way to the shop that day, and then sells or gives it to you, with the gun. It also fulfills the law if he accepts the appropriate lock as a gift from another person -- for example, from you -- and then transfers it to you, with the gun.

 

[P-12 Norm]

Not exactly. The lock must be included with a handgun transfer, including transfers in which nothing at all is "offered for sale" by the Maryland dealer -- i.e., transfers in which the Maryland dealer is merely a transfer agent for a purchase from out of state (with certain exceptions, as discussed above). But as far as I can see, the law does not specify where the Maryland dealer may obtain the lock that he uses to fulfill this requirement. Certainly, it fulfills the law if he buys it from a lock dealer and then re-sells it to you, with or without a markup. It also fulfills the law if he buys a suitable lock at a yard sale on the way to the shop that day, and then sells or gives it to you, with the gun. It also fulfills the law if he accepts the appropriate lock as a gift from another person -- for example, from you -- and then transfers it to you, with the gun.

The "Transfer" is a specific type of transaction, and not a generic transfer. If I read it with that in mind, it sounds to me like the law is stating that in any sale or transfer (transfer being a specific transaction in MD, where a used regulated arm is sold in a private transaction, but a background check is performed as with a new sale) requires a new lock to be sold. I believe that in MD, the geniuses in Annapolis thought that every single gun had to have it's own lock, and the surest was of making that happen, was to have one sold with every transaction. I like w3hat I heard some shops do, which is buy them back a day or so after the sale, then re-sell them cheap as "used" locks.

 

[mikec]

The "Transfer" is a specific type of transaction, and not a generic transfer. If I read it with that in mind, it sounds to me like the law is stating that in any sale or transfer (transfer being a specific transaction in MD, where a used regulated arm is sold in a private transaction, but a background check is performed as with a new sale) requires a new lock to be sold. I believe that in MD, the geniuses in Annapolis thought that every single gun had to have it's own lock, and the surest was of making that happen, was to have one sold with every transaction. I like w3hat I heard some shops do, which is buy them back a day or so after the sale, then re-sell them cheap as "used" locks.

Norm, please step back and reread the section of code again.

(c) (1) A dealer may not sell, offer for sale, rent, or transfer in the State a handgun manufactured on or before December 31, 2002, unless the handgun is sold, offered for sale, rented, or transferred with an external safety lock.
(2) On or after January 1, 2003, a dealer may not sell, offer for sale, rent, or transfer in the State a handgun manufactured on or after January 1, 2003, unless the handgun has an integrated mechanical safety device.

Section C 1 deals with external locks. Yes, a new one must be supplied with each handgun. A simple cable lock or trigger lock meets this section of code.

However, section C 2, which is the integral lock section, is far simpler.

What does this mean, well, you can bring your own integral lock with you, but the dealer must supply a cable lock, if the handgun was made after 1/1/2003.

The term "barrel lock" the OP uses is what may be confusing to people here. Does the OP mean a lock like a cable lock or an external integral lock? Yes, how do you have an external integral lock?? Much like a jumbo shrimp.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

citation?

. . . transfer being a specific transaction in MD, where a used regulated arm is sold in a private transaction, but a background check is performed as with a new sale) requires a new lock to be sold.

Please cite the statutory provision or COMAR section where you find this definition of "transfer."

 

[ddeanjohnson]

citation?

. . .the dealer must supply a cable lock, if the handgun was made after 1/1/2003.

Where in the Maryland statutes or the COMAR do you find such a requirement? Handguns made from 2003 on are governed by the "integrated safety device" requirement.

There is a federal lock law, already discussed earlier in this thread, which is separate and distinct from the state law, and which has its own definitions and exceptions.

 

[P-12 Norm]

Please cite the statutory provision or COMAR section where you find this definition of "transfer."

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/MDSCRuling99a05.pdf

https://litigation-essentials.lexis...cid=3B15&key=1c30632a6f56d3f9a1e2515897eaad37

In MD, a transfer of a firearm is a legal transfer of a regulated or unregulated gun from one owner to another, and is defined as such in the state codes. These citations deal with the holding of courts.

For legal code, see:

http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/SubtitleSearch.aspx?search=29.03.01.*

Where you will see the word "Transfer" used over and over to define a specific manner of changing ownership.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

further discussion

Yes, I've read that Court of Appeals ruling before. It seems to me that the court said pretty clearly that "transfer" covers any permanent change in ownership of a firearm, especially any such change that is not covered by other statutory terms such as "sell." For example, if I arranged an even-steven trade with a gunowner in another state, I'd still need a Maryland dealer to handle the "transfer." But I don't see anything limiting the application of the term "transfer" to a "used regulated arm," as you wrote above. For example, if a Maryland FFL decided to present me with a brand new gun as a pure gift, even though he did not "sell" me the gun, he would still have to go through the "transfer" process, correct?

(The Court of Appeals decision was significant because it excluded temporary loans of lawfully owned firearms between individuals (non-dealers), with no payment involved, from the scope of "transfer," and therefore clarified that such loans are legal.)

 

[TheCrow]

Ok, I am picking up my first Handgun today from Belair Gun and pawn. Should I buy a lock before I pick up or just bend over and pay the 30 bux for one at the gunshop?

 

[hodgepodge]

Ok, I am picking up my first Handgun today from Belair Gun and pawn. Should I buy a lock before I pick up or just bend over and pay the 30 bux for one at the gunshop?

Where else would you buy one? Remember that it has to be a Maryland approved lock.

I wouldn't worry about the hassle. It's a part of the cost of the gun.

 

[TheCrow]

Where else would you buy one? Remember that it has to be a Maryland approved lock.

I wouldn't worry about the hassle. It's a part of the cost of the gun.

good point, I'm sure they are overpriced everywhere. I'll just buy one with the gun to avoid any problems. I'm sure I'll get over it once I get the new gun.

 

[TheCrow]

Just got back from picking up my new glock, they didn't mention the lock at all, guess I got lucky. Glad to save a few bucks.

 

[hodgepodge]

Just got back from picking up my new glock, they didn't mention the lock at all, guess I got lucky. Glad to save a few bucks.

I have heard of this, but I have no personal experience. No, none. Well, maybe once or twice.


Now, we need pictures! We need to verify that it's a black plastic Glock and that it looks like every other one. Still, we need pictures.

 

[Tylenator]

I just picked up my Walther PPQ from Continental Arms today (Hunt Valley) and he said Maryland requires a handgun to be sold with the lock. He said "I'm going to give you this one" and was kind enough to not make me pay. He then explained the rules as if I didn't already know, about how its not illegal for me to choose to not use the lock at home, in the car, etc.. but it HAD to be given to me along with the gun. His words were, "whether you use this lock or not, keep it. Because this lock, goes with this gun, forever. You don't have to keep the lock with the gun while you own it but if you ever transfer or sell the gun, THIS lock has to go with it."

Who knows what the 100% truth is on the issue, but in my case I didn't have to pay and had no issues. I highly recommend Continental Arms though. It was my first purchase from them and everything was smooth and they are extremely helpful. As I digress....

Yea long story short, sounds like MD law is a lock goes with the gun. Package deal. Period. Maybe the store has option to restrict buying THEIR lock versus you bringing your own? I guess if you don't like the rules, don't buy from them?

 

[mikec]

I just picked up my Walther PPQ from Continental Arms today (Hunt Valley) and he said Maryland requires a handgun to be sold with the lock. He said "I'm going to give you this one" and was kind enough to not make me pay. He then explained the rules as if I didn't already know, about how its not illegal for me to choose to not use the lock at home, in the car, etc.. but it HAD to be given to me along with the gun. His words were, "whether you use this lock or not, keep it. Because this lock, goes with this gun, forever. You don't have to keep the lock with the gun while you own it but if you ever transfer or sell the gun, THIS lock has to go with it."

Who knows what the 100% truth is on the issue, but in my case I didn't have to pay and had no issues. I highly recommend Continental Arms though. It was my first purchase from them and everything was smooth and they are extremely helpful. As I digress....

Yea long story short, sounds like MD law is a lock goes with the gun. Package deal. Period. Maybe the store has option to restrict buying THEIR lock versus you bringing your own? I guess if you don't like the rules, don't buy from them?

There is nothing in the law that identifies which lock you had when you bought that handgun.

You can bring your own lock, provided it is on MD's list of approved locks, if the dealer allows it. State law does not prohibit you from bring an approved lock.

They were correct in that you do not ever have to use that lock again.

If I remember the wording of the law, the law only covers the sale from a MD regulated firearms dealer to a buyer, it does not cover secondary sales, such as if you were to sell the pistol to a work buddy.