PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

[Glaug-Eldare]

I'll tell you one thing...this is all going to be very interesting when it gets to the 4th Circuit. They're going full George Wallace on us, and they are not going to like where it gets them.

 

[OnTarget]

I'd love to know how many MSP CCW application denials/rejections were overturned by The Review Board on a year to year basis.

Question: Should these three members remain on the Review Board while the Wollard/AG suit is going on, or should they be given leave until the final decision is made? Can they make fair/rational decisions while this process is taking place?

 

[Inigoes]

I'll tell you one thing...this is all going to be very interesting when it gets to the 4th Circuit. They're going full George Wallace on us, and they are not going to like where it gets them.

Let's just hope Maryland is not "the most influential loser", just a sore loser

 

[PJDiesel]

I'd love to know how many MSP CCW application denials/rejections were overturned by The Review Board on a year to year basis.

I'll take a stab at that one. Oh,.... probably around..... none.

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

I'll take a stab at that one. Oh,.... probably around..... none.

Actually, I recall reading that they overturn quite a few MSP decisions regarding what constitutes G&S and what does not. They certainly did for Conaway

 

[Broadside]

Three review board members are defendants in the woollard case.

I don't know all the specifics of the Woollard case. But I would speculate that Woollard appealed to the review board and lost, then filed his lawsuit.

 

[Inigoes]

I don't know all the specifics of the Woollard case. But I would speculate that Woollard appealed to the review board and lost, then filed his lawsuit.

Yep

 

[PJDiesel]

Actually, I recall reading that they overturn quite a few MSP decisions regarding what constitutes G&S......

I bet I know of one a few people wish they had over ruled the MSP on.

 

[Broadside]

The only problem with that it costs me $54 livescan, plus postage and notary every time I resubmit.

When I called and spoke to someone in the licensing division, I was told that LiveScan prints are good for 30 days.

I've gone to get prints taken twice at a satellite office of the Loudoun County, Virginia Sheriff's office, once for my Florida permit renewal and once for my Arizona permit application. Both times the same lady did my prints.

I asked her if they had the ability to submit prints electronically. She said that they can only do that for suspects. But she added that the prints stay in their computer for three months. So if I came back in within that timeframe she could just print me another set of cards.

The point to my story is that I believe that fingerprints remain in the LiveScan database for 30 days before they are purged. So if you are still in the 30 day window, I would Express Mail the application back with a copy of your LiveScan receipt and a letter demanding that they process your app in accordance with the COMAR.

 

[gmhowell]

I bet I know of one a few people wish they had over ruled the MSP on.

 

[Merlin]

Actually, I recall reading that they overturn quite a few MSP decisions regarding what constitutes G&S and what does not. They certainly did for Conaway

If that's the case, how is it they did not over turn Woollard? After all he had his ccw for two terms and they turned him down on the 3rd. If they turn people down that have had ccw already, how would they ever go against the MSP and over turn someone that has never had a permit.

Woollard was granted his first ccw as well as one renewal because there was a chance his life was in danger from that one person he had problems with in the past. Nothing had changed for Woollard when he tried to renew for the 3rd time. The MSP backed up by the board just decided to not care about his problem any longer.

Nothing changed to suggest he was no longer in danger. For example if the person died and was no longer around. So the MSP as well as the board just decided the guy that threatened Woollard's life in the past is some how a nice guy now that no longer is a threat to Woollard.

My point is if the board would stoop to do something like this that was clearly to look out for the MSP back. I can't imagine them ever over turning anything the MSP want to do and will go on to say that the existence of the board is to just give the allusion of fairness so the state can pat them selves on the back as the claim how fair they are.

This states gov is one of the biggest and oldest old boys club that looks out for them and not the people they serve.

Thank god for our constitution. Imagine what a state like MD would be like to live in if not for it.

 

[Hawkeye]

Congrats! You have now exhausted your administrative remedies......

You know, I didn't think of it that way, but:

If one, hypothetically, is a member of the SAF, and, again, hypothetically, has exhausted all of their administrative remedies and still been denied a permit under G&S, AND either (for the sort term) the stay gets denied or (for the long term) we win in the 4th, then wouldn't that person be able to apply to the court for remedy under Wollard?

 

[esqappellate]

You know, I didn't think of it that way, but:

If one, hypothetically, is a member of the SAF, and, again, hypothetically, has exhausted all of their administrative remedies and still been denied a permit under G&S, AND either (for the sort term) the stay gets denied or (for the long term) we win in the 4th, then wouldn't that person be able to apply to the court for remedy under Wollard?

Well, a member of the SAF can ask the SAF to enforce the injunction in district court on a contempt motion. But, with the stay in place, the state is free to deny and thus is not in contempt. Exhaustion of administrative remedies means that a person can then bring suit in state court or in federal court. Or, can reapply after the stay is lifted or after Woollard wins in the ca4 and do it all over again.

 

[Broadside]

Well, a member of the SAF can ask the SAF to enforce the injunction in district court on a contempt motion. But, with the stay in place, the state is free to deny and thus is not in contempt. Exhaustion of administrative remedies means that a person can then bring suit in state court or in federal court. Or, can reapply after the stay is lifted or after Woollard wins in the ca4 and do it all over again.

Couldn't a person sue in state court claiming their rights have been violated?

As I understanding it, the stay allows the MSP to ignore the injunction. It does not vacate the ruling that Woollard's rights were violated.

 

[dlmcbm]

Couldn't a person sue in state court claiming their rights have been violated?

As I understanding it, the stay allows the MSP to ignore the injunction. It does not vacate the ruling that Woollard's rights were violated.

With all this lawsuit talk with them returning the apps here is one thing to remember..... It is MUCH cheaper to just re-apply after its all said and done. Just my 2 cents

 

[vector03]

Couldn't a person sue in state court claiming their rights have been violated?

As I understanding it, the stay allows the MSP to ignore the injunction. It does not vacate the ruling that Woollard's rights were violated.

Is your name Woollard?

 

[JMangle]

I'll tell you one thing...this is all going to be very interesting when it gets to the 4th Circuit. They're going full George Wallace on us, and they are not going to like where it gets them.

I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say *no-issue* now, *no-issue* tomorrow, *no-issue* forever. -- OweMalley

With all this lawsuit talk with them returning the apps here is one thing to remember..... It is MUCH cheaper to just re-apply after its all said and done. Just my 2 cents

I agree, but when it does come time for MSI and SAF to press the issue, I will gladly donate the money just for the entertainment value.

 

[crj200]

So let's keep score. Those who received the letter are those who applied after the stay. These people did the same thing as me, paid the fee for fingerprints and sent in a check to MSP for the application fee. Their applications were not processed and the check returned. The letter said you can reaplly when you have good and substantial reasons. I applied after the ruling, but before the stay and my application with check cashed sits there with no movement whatsoever. Other than my application being received before the stay how am I any different from other Maryland citizens who want a CCW? They cashed my check which begins the processing of the application, but refused to accept applications from other citizens soley based on the date the application was recieved.

I see a major violation of the 14th amendment just based on some citizens can applly, but others are told come back when you have good and substantial reason. I don't have G&S, but I want to excersize my 2nd amendment right so I applied and they processed my application.

 

[crj200]

With all this lawsuit talk with them returning the apps here is one thing to remember..... It is MUCH cheaper to just re-apply after its all said and done. Just my 2 cents

Those applicants who had their apps returned shouldn't have to shell out another $76.00 to Livescan because the MSP won't accept the application. I know they will be forced to pay the fee again, but that's not right. MSP is stonewalling, delaying, and just plain causing people to spend more than the original fee. That's over $230.00 total to be denied. If you can afford it it will force MSP to add you to the list of those whose apps are sitting.

 

[dlmcbm]

So let's keep score. Those who received the letter are those who applied after the stay. These people did the same thing as me, paid the fee for fingerprints and sent in a check to MSP for the application fee. Their applications were not processed and the check returned. The letter said you can reapply when you have good and substantial reasons. I applied after the ruling, but before the stay and my application with check cashed sits there with no movement whatsoever. Other than my application being received before the stay how am I any different from other Maryland citizens who want a CCW? They cashed my check which begins the processing of the application, but refused to accept applications from other citizens soley based on the date the application was recieved.

I see a major violation of the 14th amendment just based on some citizens can applly, but others are told come back when you have good and substantial reason. I don't have G&S, but I want to excersize my 2nd amendment right so I applied and they processed my application.

the best i can say is... When you applied as I did the court had ordered that they could not use G&S. So they started to work on ours. Then the temp stay was put into place so they could apply G&S again even back to our apps. For the ones coming in they are just shipping back I would guess in hopes to deter people from applying. But ours have been started and they could just deny them but then face the fight of "I applied during this time". I think they found it better to just sit on them for now. As of they stay it really is just like the judgment has never happened and G&S still stands.