Optics Recommendation for two different AR-15 rifles

[Pinecone]

"afford" - that is a pretty hard term to define. There are opportunity costs with everything, and what exactly turns out to be the right decision will not be known for years down the road. If the Apocalypse never comes along, will my wife and children be better off if I spent the money for scopes, guns, etc., on life insurance or an income producing asset?

There is an opportunity cost to everything. Buying $50,000 worth of firearms, optics, and ammo on a credit card is a brilliant move if the world we know ends tomorrow. No worry about paying off the creditors, etc., and you are now the top dog in the neighborhood with all the firearms and ammo.

Does afford mean buying the firearm/optic before buying health insurance, funding a retirement plan, funding a college fund for children, paying off a home mortgage, etc.

"afford" - the definition to everybody is different. I can afford it because I still have credit on my credit cards. I can afford it because I have $2,300 cash on hand. I can afford it because I have $2,300 cash on hand, the kids' college funds have been maxed out for the next 5 years, and my retirement plans have been maxed out, I can afford it because I have $1,000,000 in the bank, I can afford it because I know the zombie apocalypse is coming next week and it is now a necessity and not a luxury.

Sorry, I am working through some CPE on financial planning, retirement planning, estate planning, and alternative investments. "afford" is a topic that is discussed a lot in the courses.

Hell, I want to be able to "afford" things because I have reached financial independence wherein my money works so well for me that it makes me enough money every year that I cannot spend it all. I'm just not there yet.

"afford" - what exactly does it mean? Something different for everybody. I also find that a lot of people just cannot shoot, with whatever optic they have on their firearm. A $2,300 optic on a $3,000 gun does not mean you are hitting the 10 mark with each trigger pull.

Wordy, but that was my point.

My affordable is not yours.

Part of it is like insurance. You put money into the systems in call of the apocalypse, but it might not happen. So you have to balance cost versus benefit.

And that changes. What you can afford now, is not the same as 5 or 10 years from now. It might go up or go down.

But I try to afford buying cheap, as I end up with junk, and have to buy again. The old Buy once, cry once. I had seen it too many times, in too many areas.

 

[dreadpirate]

Answer me this; a Vortex Viper is like what? One third or one half of a Vortex Razor? What do I get for spending twice as much money on essentially the same zoom range and front objective size scope? I own a Viper model scope and the glass is really bright.

 

[outrider58]

Wordy, but that was my point.

.

(Laughing up my sleeve).


Fabs, you make decent money. When it comes to optics, you generally get what you pay for. Especially when it comes to the high end. Don't put a 4x on a 20" barrel and don't put a 14x on an SBR. The world is your oyster...

 

[sleepingdino]

OP,
If you are a successful attorney and have spent in the past on acquiring quality guns, then you should have at least one scope that is high end. Good glass is not like a computer--you can use it for a long, long time. You can always sell it if you don't need it. However, good glass defines, "buy once, cry once". I would consider a Kahles, NF, Leupold Mk 6, S&B, Steiner, and so forth given what you have written.

I'm surprised how many people are willing to spend on a gun and then be unwilling to spend on accessories, be it night vision, quality glass, body armor, etc. Most people want a 4th rifle or 10th handgun, yet don't own the night or have ballistic protection.

Here's a brief discussion starting around 6:00 about having many good scopes or one high end one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrQ1MDYvSuw

For HD, it is hard to beat an Aimpoint Micro. The profile is noticeably smaller than an MRO.

For those who don't have disposable income, just get the PA and be done with it.

 

[1time]

Answer me this; a Vortex Viper is like what? One third or one half of a Vortex Razor? What do I get for spending twice as much money on essentially the same zoom range and front objective size scope? I own a Viper model scope and the glass is really bright.

True high density glass and better coatings. Usually a bigger tube as well as more adjustment. I have a Viper PST and it is a good optic but it is inferior compared to the Razor HD. In bright sunlight either work but when the light gets dim or lighting gets goofy due to shadows, there is no comparison.

 

[dreadpirate]

True high density glass and better coatings. Usually a bigger tube as well as more adjustment. I have a Viper PST and it is a good optic but it is inferior compared to the Razor HD. In bright sunlight either work but when the light gets dim or lighting gets goofy due to shadows, there is no comparison.

Ok - poor light conditions. Fair enough. I must say i have never put my scope to that test.

 

[dreadpirate]

OP,
If you are a successful attorney and have spent in the past on acquiring quality guns, then you should have at least one scope that is high end.

And you only live once. Some good arguments being made here.

 

[MikeTF]

Maybe we should ask Suze Orman?

Who cares if you can 'afford' it? If you want it, buy it. Isn't that the mantra? To a degree I can agree with this philosophy, provided that one recognizes how long they will be using something for and how much this item will be sold for when they are finished using it.

If you can make a profit or break even on a purchase: does it matter? Are we not just shuffling assets on the decks of our personal balance sheets at this point?

On the other hand, if a person is making a lot of money and a lot of purchases and their net worth is not going up: we have a problem.

Purchasing an item that can be sold at a later date is not a cash flow question, it's a balance sheet one.

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

Vortex PST is decent. Razor obviously blows it out of the water. I'd say the PST is borderline terrible on the high-end of magnification whereas the Razor is quite usable at max magnification albeit a bit dark. For the price of the Razor I'm happy, though better resolution on the high end would be great...I'm just not willing to pay another $1K+ to get it.

 

[dreadpirate]

Vortex PST is decent. Razor obviously blows it out of the water. I'd say the PST is borderline terrible on the high-end of magnification whereas the Razor is quite usable at max magnification albeit a bit dark. For the price of the Razor I'm happy, though better resolution on the high end would be great...I'm just not willing to pay another $1K+ to get it.

You guys are trying to talk me into putting my PST up for sale and replacing with a razor

 

[dreadpirate]

And how about my Nikon Monarch? Never mind - I don't want to know.

 

[sailskidrive]

And how about my Nikon Monarch? Never mind - I don't want to know.

Personally I like Nikon, they're a true optics company.


The new Vortex PST Gen II is looking a lot like a Razor with out the HD glass...

 

[fabsroman]

Let's throw a wrench in this entire thing. Personally, I like Burris. That is pretty much the only scope brand I have been using for the past 25 years, with the exception of one Aimpoint. I was actually thinking about going with a 3x Burris prism scope on the SBR with a Fastfire on top of it, and then an XTR II 1-8x on the 16" gun. Just took a look at Steiner's website, and it also has a 3x prism scope and a reflex site that I could use, the MRS. I'll have to look more closely at the 1-?x scopes over the weekend.

Anyway, what is everybody's opinion on a 3x prism scope for an SBR with a reflex site mounted on top of it? Even the Steiner prism scope is "cheap".

Then, I am debating what the difference is between the Steiner T5Xi 1-5x24 and the M5Xi 1-5x24. Guessing the difference is solely the glass since both have 30mm tubes and the same level of magnification. I'll have to look into it some more over the weekend.

 

[1time]

I think the red dot sits too high to be ideal. Sight offset being so high, holdovers will be fairly extreme if you were trying to be fast. For home defense, I would stick with just a red dot.

The Burris XTR 1-8 is a solid scope.

 

[MikeTF]

Anyway, what is everybody's opinion on a 3x prism scope for an SBR with a reflex site mounted on top of it? Even the Steiner prism scope is "cheap".

You can buy it and try it. If you don't like it you can sell it as 'barely used' on eBay and try something else for a minimal 'loss' on your purchase. If you want to go a step further, you can buy one used on eBay (or elsewhere) for a good price and then sell it for what you bought it for. The only thing you have to lose is your time and a little bit of money.

 

[fabsroman]

You can buy it and try it. If you don't like it you can sell it as 'barely used' on eBay and try something else for a minimal 'loss' on your purchase. If you want to go a step further, you can buy one used on eBay (or elsewhere) for a good price and then sell it for what you bought it for. The only thing you have to lose is your time and a little bit of money.

Good point. The Burris 332 is $275 on Amazon and Burris is offering a free Fastfire with the purchase until April 30th. Think I'll go that route on the SBR and see if it works for me.

Also think I have made up my mind on the Burris XTR II 1-8x24. I just like the reticle way more on the Burris than what is on the Steiner or anything else I have seen in the $1.500 range.

 

[MikeTF]

Good point. The Burris 332 is $275 on Amazon and Burris is offering a free Fastfire with the purchase until April 30th. Think I'll go that route on the SBR and see if it works for me.

Also think I have made up my mind on the Burris XTR II 1-8x24. I just like the reticle way more on the Burris than what is on the Steiner or anything else I have seen in the $1.500 range.

I have a Burris 3X magnifier for the Aimpoint Pro on my AR. It works really well and I like the price a lot more than the price of the aimpoint magnifier. Primary Arms makes some great stuff too.

 

[schnauzr]

Good point. The Burris 332 is $275 on Amazon and Burris is offering a free Fastfire with the purchase until April 30th. Think I'll go that route on the SBR and see if it works for me.

Also think I have made up my mind on the Burris XTR II 1-8x24. I just like the reticle way more on the Burris than what is on the Steiner or anything else I have seen in the $1.500 range.

For some reason, I'm really happy for you having decided which way to go on your optics

If I may interject, You can get the 332 on jet.com as low as $220.21 shipped using the 15% code (TRIPLE15), opting out of free returns and paying with debit. It should still be eligible for the rebate. I think this is pretty close to the record low on these optics and I don't recall if the free Fastfire promo was around the last time it was around $220 which would make it even better.

 

[fabsroman]

For some reason, I'm really happy for you having decided which way to go on your optics

If I may interject, You can get the 332 on jet.com as low as $220.21 shipped using the 15% code (TRIPLE15), opting out of free returns and paying with debit. It should still be eligible for the rebate. I think this is pretty close to the record low on these optics and I don't recall if the free Fastfire promo was around the last time it was around $220 which would make it even better.

I'm happy too. Even happier that you gave me that info on the Burris M332. It comes out to something like $222 on Jet.com and I will be getting the free Fastfire with it once I send in the paperwork. Spending that amount of money makes it a lot easier to try a prism site to see what it is like. I'll have to figure out if the Fastfire atop the M332 will work for me. I have my doubts, but we shall see.

 

[fabsroman]

I think the red dot sits too high to be ideal. Sight offset being so high, holdovers will be fairly extreme if you were trying to be fast. For home defense, I would stick with just a red dot.

The Burris XTR 1-8 is a solid scope.

Yeah, I have no idea if the Fastfire atop the M332 is going to work, but I am going to give it a try. Anybody ever mount the reflex site on the left side of a prism or other type of scope? Wondering if mounting it on the left side, instead of the top, would work.

I am also going to build a .300 BLK SBR with a 10.5" barrel, and that will definitely be suited for an Aimpoint red dot. Maybe a COMPM4S. Same could be said for the .458 SOCOM SBR I am going to build with a 12" barrel.