Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City

[edhallor]

For anyone interested in pepper spray, we offer a Sabre pepper spray class. Sabre is the best stuff on the market.

http://proactiveshooters.com/sabre-pepper-spray-civilian-safety-awareness-program-csap/

It would be unfair to use my Law Enforcement background to recommend any particular Brand, but both my Wife and Daughter carry a chemical deterrent.

Pepper Spray is not that great for LEO as after you spray the Guy you need to grab and Cuff him,at that point your eyes burn like Hellfire and you are just as blind as he is. You can always pick out the Rookie on "Cops", he is the one emptying a whole can of Pepper Spray and then shaking it to see if he/she can get an extra puff or two, what a putz.

On the other hand if you are a victim and spray an assailant to temporarily blind him in order to put some space between him and you it's a great option. Also much easier to defend than a cutting.

Disclaimer: My opinion is just that, an opinion, not a recommendation. The action you take in any given situation is entirely of your own choosing.

Stay Safe,
Ed

 

[Sirex]

A big part of not being a victim is being aware and LOOKING confident. Good stride, shoulders up chest puffed out. You know. Many years ago when taking a self defense course the instructor told us that if we keep our heads up, look around, and if anyone makes eye contact with you, instead of looking down or away, just nod like you've acknowledged them, but not challenged them. Confidence, but not arrogance.

If that fails I just whip out my light saber and slice them in half.

 

[X-Factor]

You may like a Cold Steel Voyager x2, they're like a KABAR for your pocket(only it's an inch longer than a KABAR when open!). When it's in your pocket it looks like a regular pocket knife with a pocket clip.

I carry this on me 24/7. LOVE that knife. I opted for the 5" blade, seemed like the 6" blade was a bit unnecessary.

 

[Indiana Jones]

you can carry any length blade as long as it's NOT concealed. In balt county anyway. get like a nice size folder and all you need is the pocket/belt clip sticking out to be considered legal. its hard to see and the only reason youd be hasseled by the police is if you are acting like a susp subj or waving it around like one of the Three Storms in Big Trouble in Little China...but with the latter, id be more worried about Jack Burton and Egg Shen than the BCPD

 

[Mark Novak]

Is there a permit that I can get ? I have a fix blade Buck that I carry when Hunting,fishing or riding my motorcycle. And I don't need to be stopped by leo. I think of it as a tool. 6" blade 10" overall

 

[nerfherder]

If that fails I just whip out my light saber and slice them in half.

+1

 

[boss66tcode]

A big part of not being a victim is being aware and LOOKING confident. Good stride, shoulders up chest puffed out. You know. Many years ago when taking a self defense course the instructor told us that if we keep our heads up, look around, and if anyone makes eye contact with you, instead of looking down or away, just nod like you've acknowledged them, but not challenged them. Confidence, but not arrogance.

If that fails I just whip out my light saber and slice them in half.

I sense that the force is strong within you, young one...
You must always be aware of the dark side

 

[edhallor]

I sense that the force is strong within you, young one...
You must always be aware of the dark side

BURN

Ed

 

[kmbrad]

Don't do it !!!!!!

I was a Baltimore City resident for more than 23 years.
Back in 2008 I was the victim of an assault and made a citizen's arrest while open carrying a baton.
I was then arrested a few days later and charged with CR 4-101 along with sec deg assault and malicious destruction.

A man was driving extremely fast thru our neighborhood (with his headlights off at night) and almost killed one of my neighbors when she was crossing while walking her dogs.
He then got out of his car (he has a history of acts of violence under the influence) and chased her and her boyfriend up and down the street.
I ran out there with my baton and asked what was going on.
He then got back in his car (which was on the wrong side of the road btw) and drove his car into my knee caps.
I told him he was under citizen's arrest and instructed him to get out of the car.
Instead he hit me with his car a second time so I jumped up (to avoid getting run over) and smashed his windshield trying to get the keys out of the ignition (hence the sec deg ass and malicious dest … charges two and three).

I can tell you folks after significant research that CR 4-101 technically only applies when you intend to unlawfully injure someone.
The intent of self defense can no longer be considered unlawful injury since the Supreme Court Heller decision (the 2nd amend implies the right to self defense ... Heller specifically states this so it is now law of the land).


However ...

Based on my experience, the rule of law simply does not exist in Maryland.
If you do carry a baton (even though there is no specific statute excluding a baton and the 2nd amend gives you the right to open carry) if anything happens you will be arrested ... charged ... prosecuted ... and convicted as I was.

The courts in Maryland have de-evolved into political arenas controlled by the left.
Maryland prosecutors have routinely charged anyone with any weapon in the past … and continue to (so it seems) in spite of the law.
During my trial (if you could call it that) the word "unlawful" was never used even though the law uses that word.
The judge and prosecutors (and my charging papers as well) had that inconvenient word deleted even though it's in the law.

My Website with details of this case will be up soon.

 

[edhallor]

I was a Baltimore City resident for more than 23 years.
Back in 2008 I was the victim of an assault and made a citizen's arrest while open carrying a baton.
I was then arrested a few days later and charged with CR 4-101 along with sec deg assault and malicious destruction.

The courts in Maryland have de-evolved into political arenas controlled by the left.

My Website with details of this case will be up soon.

I Retired from Baltimore about 18 Months ago, as I crossed 695 I did not even look back.

I have not returned nor do I plan to do so. Law Books are written to protect the rights of Criminals not to protect the Rights of Victims. We all know this is true, I can only assume that the founders of this great Nation feared the Government more than it's Criminals, it must have been a different Nation indeed..

I do know the outcome but I do know I will take whatever force necessary to protect my life, my Family and the safety of innocent citizens. I pray that time never comes but if it should occur (to any of us), I hope we will stand together, if not monetary at least in moral support.

But as repeated several times in this Thread, once we take that action we are no longer viewed as the victim but as the Criminal, Sad, we must be classified as a Criminal to be protected by law

Ed

 

[kmbrad]

Ed I appreciate and agree with your comments however you say that the laws are written to protect the criminals ...

... I don't think you got my point.

The Laws are not written to protect the criminals.
The Judges, prosecutors, court commissioners are criminals.

They routinely ignore Maryland law to further their political agenda.

CR 4-101 says you are only guilty of violating CR 4-101 if you have a weapon AND intend to UNLAWFULLY injure.

These wonderful people believe no one should ever posses or carry a weapon period.
They don't care about the 2nd amendment ...
They don't care about Heller (a higher court is binding) ...
They don't even care about Maryland law ...



and I would point out that you are not safe outside of Baltimore City.
It was a retired Baltimore COUNTY judge who was a lifetime member of the NRA who convicted me.

I have an Audio transcript and I have listened to it over and over.
He stated that since I had the weapon ... I intended to use the weapon ... and therfore I was guilty of violating CR 4-101.
He ignored the word unlawfull.

You folks can talk law all day long but you still live under the American Taliban (the socialist left).
You are in a state which has succeeded from the union long ago.

The best thing to do is get back to the USA.

 

[edhallor]

Ed I appreciate and agree with your comments however you say that the laws are written to protect the criminals ...

... I don't think you got my point.

The Laws are not written to protect the criminals.
The Judges, prosecutors, court commissioners are criminals.

You folks can talk law all day long but you still live under the American Taliban (the socialist left).
You are in a state which has succeeded from the union long ago.

The best thing to do is get back to the USA.

I tried to offer some sympathy for your situation, that didn't work. Now let me offer you some good advice. Instead of dialing 911 you interject yourself into a boyfriend/ girlfriend situation with a club, attempt to stop a person leaving the scene of an argument by smashing his Windshield, reaching in his car while he is attempting to leave, attempt to take his keys from the Ignition and pull him out of the car while threatening him with a club and arrest, and you wonder why you were arrested? Let me give you a bit of your own advice "Don't Do It"

And hope this guy you were just convicted of assaulting doesn't get one of those Left Wing Socialist Criminal Attorneys and drag you into Civil Court for Damages.

And let me give you a second piece of free advice DO NOT I repeat DO NOT put up a Web Site claiming the Judge, Court Commissioner and States Attorney are Criminals or do any more Civil Damage than you have already done.

"A person who makes a citizen's arrest could risk exposing him or herself to possible lawsuits or criminal charges (such as charges of impersonating police, false imprisonment, kidnapping, or wrongful arrest) if the wrong person is apprehended or a suspects civil rights are violated.[citation needed] This is especially so when police forces are attempting to determine who an aggressor is."

Ed

 

[kmbrad]

Ed,

I don't think you understand the situation I faced.
Let me explain.

I had lived in that rough neighborhood for 23 years.
There are three blue lighted crime cameras on three of our street corners due to the crime problems.

I have walked citizens patrols since the late 80's as well as being a block watcher.
I have worked with and assisted Police too many times to remember.

I have witnessed a shooting, two stabbings or cuttings, fights too numerous to number as well as multiple b&e's etc assaults etc …
After a while none of us even paid attention to the drug deals as long as they did their transaction and left our street.

I have broken up fights, and moved disorderlys along after the bar across the street closed.
In 2005 I came to the assistance of a police officer all alone in the middle of a 12 person fight until other units arrived.

We had a seriously mentally ill guy who lived around the corner who threaten to kill one of my elderly neighbors multiple times.
12 of us would routinely go to his trial and stand up to let the judge know we were there when a case was called.
In the end … nothing was done.

We had crime prevention meetings on a regular basis.

A week before this incident my neighbor two doors on the left experienced a home invasion and robbery.
A week later my neighbor to the right was a victim of a strong arm robbery.
We were very tight on this block and had promised to watch each other's back.

I am a veteran of this sort of thing.
I know the force pyramid better than most Police Officers do.

Try to put yourself in my shoes for a second.

You are watching TV and you hear a long tire screech that indicates a very high rate of speed.
You hear yelling beyond the normal city stuff.
Then when you lift up the window … you hear maniacal screaming (and by maniacal I mean someone with true psychological mania) unlike anything I have ever heard.

You hear your neighbor respond with fear in her voice.

This sounds serious, you say to yourself, so you run down there with your baton (one of the few weapons you can legally carry in Maryland) and when you get outside you see a man screaming at the neighbors boyfriend in a manner that indicates a strong possibility he is under the influence.

Within 30 to 45 seconds of leaving your house:
> this man immediately gets in his car after seeing you approach
>you ask the boyfriend what happened
>he replies "he almost hit GIRL_FREINDS_NAME"
>the man screams at the top of his lungs "GET THE HELL OUT OF MY WAY"
>you turn and look and realize he is on the wrong side of the road and pointing right at you.
> his headlights are off and it is night
>then he lets off the brake and rams your knees

At that point Ed I was convinced this man should not be allowed to leave until the police check him out and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

For all I know this guy is driving around drunk, at blazing speeds, in residential 25 MPH neighborhoods trying to run people over.
After studding this guys criminal record in preparation for my trial … I have learned even more about him and what I have learned only further supports my conclusion at that moment.

He has convictions for reckless endangerment under the influence
DUI's
Assaults
Passing forged checks and uttering false documents.
Numerous violations of parole.

Since this incident he has four traffic citations for doing over 50 in a 25 or 35 zone.

In Maryland you CAN make a citizen's arrest not only if you witness a felony but also if you witness a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace.
Here is a link for the Maryland State Bar Ass:

http://www.msba.org/departments/commpubl/publications/brochures/legalrights.htm

I have been to the Annapolis law library and have a list of cases going back decades at the MD Court of Appeals and US Dist Court that have affirmed this fact.

No one who makes a citizen's arrest is impersonating a police officer … period.
You don't know the law … I do.

I was well within my rights to use reasonable force to:
1> disarm him of his weapon (the automobile he hit me with in front of a witness btw)
2>to detain him for the police.

For the record I did not assault him he assaulted me four times.
I showed restraint beyond what any police officer would have been capable of.
A few years ago, a Maryland State trooper shot a man thru the windshield in a similar situation.

I never hit him with the baton or my fists.

He punched me in the eye causing a corneal abrasion and while I continued trying to get the keys out he grabbed my baton and hit me in the head which required 5 staples.

After it was done he didn't have A SCRATCH ON HIM!

It is CRIMINAL and ABSOLUTILY UNACCEPTABLE for legal professionals to knowingly prosecute and convict me of crimes THEY KNOW I DID NOT COMMIT because they didn't like something else I did THAT WAS LEGAL!!!!!!

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law

I hope these tards do sue me.
I hope the buffoon of a judge (who I placed my trust in and who betrayed that trust) and the prosecutor sue me.
They can look my new address up in Virginia which has some of the best judges in the nation and where I know the courts will give me a fair trial and will PROPERLY APPLY MARYLAND LAW to the situation.

You have made the same liberal junk statements many others have made to me and for the life of me I can't understand this nonsense.
It's almost like the "Don't Snitch … Mind your own business" street code (that originated in Baltimore btw) has infected everyone to the point they have forgotten about the rule of law.

I agree with you that no one should attempt to exorcize their rights under Maryland law.
I dis-agree with you for the reason.

It IS because Judges, Prosecutors, court commissioners etc along with the whole political establishment will criminally abuse their position of public trust to come down on any honest citizen for daring to interfere with their social engineering in managing the inmates of what amounts to an open prison.

Ed, maybe you have sensed that I am angry and your damn right I am.
It was bad enough I had to deal with this lifelong miscreant but to be CRIMINALLY betrayed by the people in the justice system is unacceptable.

As citizens we have to know the law to obey the law.
Ignorance is no excuse.

I knew the law and did not break it and yet I was convicted.
As to this miscreant's trial, the prosecutor told him he didn't even have to show.
They just made it go away.

 

[edhallor]

My Friend,

As I said I agree that things need to be fixed and bad things happen to good people. That said I repeat, I have sympathy for your situation. Knowing the situation as you do I would again advise not to Charge Windmills, you will get hurt even more.

This is best put behind you as a learning experience. Your obviously a young man who would like to bring change to a bad situation, look around there are many organizations working to restore the Rights of the honest citizen. Be prepared, life will knock you on your ass more than once before you meet our maker, and like a lot of us landing on your ass hurts your pride more than your Butt.

When you speak of publicly naming and defaming high ranking members of the Judicial System as "Criminals" you are walking on Legal Ground that could destroy your life.

When a Police Officer takes an action or makes an arrest he is acting under the color of his Office and is protected by the Police Officer's Bill of Rights "LEBOR". You on the other hand are standing there with your _ _ _ _ in your hand and, as you found a whole system waiting to cut it off.

If this Forum helps you to blow off a little steam, I am more than glad to stand here as a Retired Baltimore Police Sergeant and let you bounce a few barbs about an unfair system off of me.

If it stops you from doing something I consider foolish, or going down a path that leads to Bankruptcy, than God Bless,

Ed

 

[new_shooter]

...the only reason youd be hasseled by the police is if you are acting like a susp subj or waving it around like one of the Three Storms in Big Trouble in Little China...but with the latter, id be more worried about Jack Burton and Egg Shen than the BCPD

Well dang, you just ruined my weekend plans.

To all: good discussion.

 

[kmbrad]

Ed,

You’re a nice guy but …

You still don't know all the facts and so you are jumping to conclusions.

This is why I want to setup a web page to properly outline the facts to folks rather than bits and pieces out of order.

You seem to be under the impression that the police arrested me.

I made a citizen's arrest and conducted myself perfectly all throughout the process.
I informed no less than three Officers when they arrived that "this man is under citizen's arrest".
After all I had a black eye, my glasses were smashed, and I had a gash two inches long on my head while my T shirt and face were soaked with blood.
This guy didn't have a scratch on him.

At that point their duties were clear.
I went off in the ambulance after which the Officers let this guy go, which is a violation of Maryland criminal procedures for arrest.
The statutes on Arrest do not differentiate separate or distinct procedures for a citizen's arrest vs. a LEO arrest.

Technically he is still a fugitive under the law.
Red flag number one.

After he swore out a false warrant (concocting a phony hate crime btw) and had me arrested, I found out that he had not been processed.
I went down to the court commissioner's office and asked what gives?
Why am I … the victim of a crime, arrested and this guy is let go?

The commissioner actually got belligerent with me (even though I am always polite and diplomatic).
His supervisor told him to step aside and he would handle it.

With a Cheshire cat smile he gave me the forms to fill out and politely assisted me.
After he assigned the charges I asked why felony perjury was not listed.
I had specifically mentioned this guy lied under penalties of perjury (a felony when someone is swearing out a warrant) that he was the victim of a hate crime perpetrated by not just me … but both my neighbor and her boyfriend his other two victims.
My charging papers had his hand written statement.

He said, "that comes later" which I now know was a lie.
That's felony obstruction of justice on the part of the court commissioner.
Red flag number two.

He said, "well I'm not sure how to get this guys address but I'll try".
I got his number and ext and called him several times asking if he had been arrested or not.

Finally he told me after a long pause, "were not going to arrest him … He has been sent a summons".

This is when I learned that in Baltimore City, one is found guilty when one looses the race to the court commissioner's office.
Cross complaints (as they are called) are treated completely different.
Criminals in Bmore know this and file bogus cross complaints all the time now against their victims.

It goes on from there Ed.

More and more it became clear to me that certain people in the justice system were protecting this man.

As far as my life is concerned … it's already ruined.

I've held a security clearance and for nearly 20 years I've been privileged to work for a contracting firm as an Automation & IT Systems engineer.
Name any high profile Federal Government or DOD building in D.C or Virginia … I've worked there.

I am now un-employed and since 9-11 every job in this area, for not just my profession, but many others, requires a clearance.
Even though I filed my own notice of appeal and won, it's Game Over.
Expungment does not count on an SF-85 or SF-86 form.
You still must answer under penalties of perjury.

The computer still says I am a criminal and a racist who perpetrated a hate crime.
The National Gallery of Art refused to even let me onsite to work at my last job except as a patron of the arts during business hours and only in public areas.

I got nothing to lose Ed if I take this to the public arena … and rest assured I will.
Once the web site is up I will contact the editors of Fox and anyone else I can think of.
All the documents will be there.

Stay tuned folks.

 

[Roneut]

km brad, right/truthful or not, I think you should probably not have posted your story in this thread of all places simply as a matter of forum etiquette. It basically hijacked the thread to tell your own personal story that is sound more and more off-topic by the post. I'd be interesting in reading it to be sure, I quite enjoy studying legal cases, but I feel this was not the place or the context for it.

 

[kmbrad]

Sorry glistam.
Ed and I did get a little off topic.

I originally responded to the very first post about open carry of a baton which caught my eye.
I wanted to warn folks not to exercise their 2nd amendment rights in Maryland because it is not safe to do so under the current regime.

The point I wanted to make sure everyone knows about is re: CR 4-101 and how it is misused by MD prosecutors routinely for simple possession of a weapon of any type except for a very small pocket knife.

Historically CR 4-101 did not have "in an unlawful manor." after the word "injure" at the end … until a few years ago.
Before the statute was amended, possession of any weapon with the stated intent of self defense was a crime in Maryland and many innocent Americans went to jail for this.

Yet MD prosecutors still ignore the current version of CR 4-101 (not to mention Heller which they absolutely refuse to acknowledge).

Legally they have to apply current law correctly from top to bottom.
2nd amendment and Heller down to the now antiquated CR 4-101 (Heller of course wins but they refuse to acknowledge this and that … I assert … is a criminal conspiracy).

My case occurred after Heller and the prosecutor argued I was guilty of CR 4-101 when she asked me why I had the baton and I said "for self defense".
The Judge agreed and found me guilty.

He actually spoke his thoughts out loud on tape saying "well … he admitted he had the weapon … so I guess he intended to use it" and then found me guilty.

In my readings at the Annapolis law library I found many cases where innocent folks have been railroaded in MD.

One comes to mind where a truck driver had a machete openly sitting in his front seat.
At his trial he admitted it was for self defense but they found him guilty anyway because they don't like that 2nd amendment stuff here.

To add insult to injury he was also charged and convicted of having the machete concealed.

The judge ruled that the truck seat was so high the Officer could not have seen the weapon therefore it was concealed in spite of the fact that he made every possible effort not to hide it.

 

[edhallor]

“kmbrad”,

This Thread was Posted By “Ethan83” relative to Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City.

“Glistam” was absolutely correct in interjecting his comment of “I think you should probably not have posted your story in this thread of all places simply as a matter of forum etiquette. It basically hijacked the thread to tell your own personal story”

The Thread was dormant for some time when I saw your Post, I was not quite sure how it related to the dormant Thread “Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City.”?

However now wanting to be rude I gave you a reply on the danger of interjecting yourself into a situation. I quickly found you were off-topic and into a personal Rant which was a discourtesy to the original Poster “Ethan83”.

I saw you only had a few Posts and were most likely unfamiliar with Protocol or how to start a Thread of your Own.

If you wish to start a Thread about the Inequities of the Criminal Justice System please PM “Private Message” me and I will assist you in getting a Thread started.

Ed

 

[A. Wayne]

I can't imagine the nightmares I would have afterwards if i ever had to cut someone to protect myself. I think open carry should be the norm in our society, however since it is not the norm, doing so just invites trouble from police,crackheads or just someone with too much testosterone. I agree that these people seeking treatment (if that's what they are truly doing ) may be innocent, BUT addicts do not think in a sane manner. If u wanna openly carry something, put on a baseball jersey and hat and put a baseball bat over your shoulder,or wear carpenter pants and put a hammer in the loop- then u could argue you are just going to play ball or are going to do some home repairs...