New HK VP9

[Corporal Doug]

Didn't the article say the HK was making striker fired pistols 12 years before Glock? Not so sure they think they have been missing out on something all these years.

This, and I whole heartedly disagree that striker fired pistols are "the way to go". Maybe for basic shooters who need a simple firearm that goes bang. But DA/SA is the real "way to go."


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[teratos]

This, and I whole heartedly disagree that striker fired pistols are "the way to go". Maybe for basic shooters who need a simple firearm that goes bang. But DA/SA is the real "way to go."

Can you explain in more detail why a reliable design is only for "basic shooters", other than personal preference? God knows if you see me at the range I want you to think I am more than just a basic shooter.

 

[clandestine]

IME "Exposed" Hammer Fired pistols will fail when exposed to sow, mud, and dirt. It prevents the hammer from having sufficient momentum to ignite the primer. Striker fired are more reliable IMHO. What I don't like about most Striker Fired pistols is the lack of dual strike capability. The P99 had that feature.

IMHO the Glock is still king because available aftermarket parts are affordable and abundant. Try to get spare parts from HK. They are expensive when you can find them.

Even with the cost savings of this model, HK Mags are also gosh awful pricey compared to Glock.

HK do make some fine guns but I don't use them anymore simply over the parts issue.

 

[swinokur]

HK redid their web site.

http://www.hk-usa.com/index.asp

 

[Indiana Jones]

IME "Exposed" Hammer Fired pistols will fail when exposed to sow, mud, and dirt. It prevents the hammer from having sufficient momentum to ignite the primer. Striker fired are more reliable IMHO. What I don't like about most Striker Fired pistols is the lack of dual strike capability. The P99 had that feature.



IMHO the Glock is still king because available aftermarket parts are affordable and abundant. Try to get spare parts from HK. They are expensive when you can find them.



Even with the cost savings of this model, HK Mags are also gosh awful pricey compared to Glock.



HK do make some fine guns but I don't use them anymore simply over the parts issue.

What is dual strike? Never heard of it.

Have to agree about the mags, I pay ~$40-45 for a P30 mag and i think I was paying about $20-25 for a Glock mag. It seems there also arent many aftermarket parts for these Hk guns as you said. Id love a better trigger in my P30. With my small hands comfort is everything and I can get an insane grip on the P 30, so I cant wait for the VP-9! On my list behind some other stuff. Id also love a Glock 20!


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[clandestine]

What is dual strike? Never heard of it.

Have to agree about the mags, I pay ~$40-45 for a P30 mag and i think I was paying about $20-25 for a Glock mag. It seems there also arent many aftermarket parts for these Hk guns as you said. Id love a better trigger in my P30. With my small hands comfort is everything and I can get an insane grip on the P 30, so I cant wait for the VP-9! On my list behind some other stuff. Id also love a Glock 20!


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A double a took second shot. For instance on a Block if you fire and get a click you jerk the slide to recock and chamber a new round because you have no second strike capability. The P99 Walther did just that (one variant did at least). I love that gun for that feature alone.

In a self defense situation a click with no boom can require more training that just having a second strike feature that often sets off the round.

 

[Indiana Jones]

A double a took second shot. For instance on a Block if you fire and get a click you jerk the slide to recock and chamber a new round because you have no second strike capability. The P99 Walther did just that (one variant did at least). I love that gun for that feature alone.

In a self defense situation a click with no boom can require more training that just having a second strike feature that often sets off the round.

Very cool. I wonder why everyone doesnt include that? Does it take up alot of room internally or something?


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[clandestine]

Very cool. I wonder why everyone doesnt include that? Does it take up alot of room internally or something?


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Couldn't say why they don't. Perhaps its cost, complexity leading to failures, or just its not popular.

 

[swinokur]

The Glock is so simple that just the slide moving to the rear allows the trigger bar to move up and reset. Adding anything as Chad says makes it more complicated.

 

[smokey]

What is dual strike? Never heard of it.

Have to agree about the mags, I pay ~$40-45 for a P30 mag and i think I was paying about $20-25 for a Glock mag. It seems there also arent many aftermarket parts for these Hk guns as you said. Id love a better trigger in my P30. With my small hands comfort is everything and I can get an insane grip on the P 30, so I cant wait for the VP-9! On my list behind some other stuff. Id also love a Glock 20!


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A double a took second shot. For instance on a Block if you fire and get a click you jerk the slide to recock and chamber a new round because you have no second strike capability. The P99 Walther did just that (one variant did at least). I love that gun for that feature alone.

In a self defense situation a click with no boom can require more training that just having a second strike feature that often sets off the round.

here's a video of jenni's(formerly mine) p99as. In it, I drop the slide on an empty chamber. It is in a "Single-action" mode(specifically in it's "anti-stress" mode. I press the decock button on top of the slide. You'll notice the striker indicator move forward as the striker falls on the striker block. From here, I press the trigger back through a long/heavy trigger stroke...its "Double-Action" mode.

I cock the slide on my belt with the trigger released. Now it's in "anti-stress mode". It's "single-action", but the trigger is all the way out where it would be in "double-action" mode. Unlike "double-action" mode, all you're pressing against is the trigger return spring, not the weight of the striker spring. If you move past where the reset point is, the trigger clicks and stays at it's rearward reset position. This is the "anti-stress"...in other words, you can have a light trigger and under a stressful situation, the trigger will give you a warning that you're putting too much pressure on the trigger if your finger is on it. I continue pressing the trigger rearward and break it off of the "single-action sear". I recock it on my belt, holding the trigger rearward and demonstrate how short the reset is.


On the p99, it's a striker-fired gun...so it's technically not a "double-action" or a "single-action"... but something different entirely. That said, the gun has two sears internally that allow you to fire either from a precocked striker like a glock or m&p....oorrrrr you can fire from the decocked position with the striker all the way forward.

The way the p99 accomplishes this is by kind've adding a c-shaped sear to the trigger bar and a little foot on the sear face that the c-shaped sear grabs on to. This sear is the "double-action" sear. As the trigger moves rearward, the sear picks up the striker...drags it back...and them cams down and out of the way, thusly dropping the striker.

It also has a single-action sear. This one reminds me of a deadfall snare you'd use to trap game under a rock. when the slide moves rearward(with striker attached) the striker will move back and past the SA sear. When the slide moves forward, the SA sear catches the striker face. When you press the trigger to the rear, the trigger bar(with the c-shaped DA sear now not grabbing anything) knocks the legs out of the SA sear and allows it to fall out of the way of the striker, resulting in a very crisp break and short reset.

It's really a pretty nifty system and one that I prefer over essentially all other striker systems. If I am doing something where the gun is going to be beat on a bit(like hiking with the p99 on my hip), I can decock it and add some weight and travel to the trigger. I normally don't, because it has a trigger safety ans striker block...but it's there as an option.(You can see and hear James Bond decock his p99as in casino royale when he chambers a round in it when he's outside in the car).

I have a picture somewhere on this computer of the guts of the p99as compared to the ppq(with DA sear removed). i'll try to find it and add it to this post for a better visual.


All that said, I've always been taught to tap/rack for a "click" type malfunction. I've used the second-strike to fire a couple reloads that didn't have the primer set deep enough, but in competition or self defense, I don't want to assume that the second whack will solve the problem with the bad ammo. It's better to just get that bad ammo out of there and chamber another round with a quick rack on the slide. the tap/rack will also recock the striker on a glock or m&p(or p99).

here we go...

in the picture above, the red arrow is pointing at the "double-action" sear of the p99 and the same place on the ppq with that sear missing. The green arrow points to the single-action sear on both. Note how the single-action sear hinges at the back where that spring is(spring returns it to the upward position). Underneath the SA sear is a support leg that holds it up. When the trigger is pressed to the rear, the support bar gets kicked out from under the SA sear and allows it to drop.

I'm guessing more manufacturers don't have this because it adds complexity to the gun. In this case, it's beneficial complexity because it adds redundancy to the striker system. If one breaks, you've got a backup. They do have to be timed correctly though. The DA sear needs to be clear of the striker when the SA sear drops or the trigger would feel weird.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Awesome write up and thanks for the pictures/videos. Now I remember this because my friend had one of those P99s back in the day and raved about it. In fact he got rid of every gun he had to build his car up (dumb) but kept the P99.


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[smokey]

ughhh, damnit. The vp9 has been bouncing around in my head and the more it stays there the more sense it makes to get one. I'm going to have to just try to think about other stuff...

 

[teratos]

ughhh, damnit. The vp9 has been bouncing around in my head and the more it stays there the more sense it makes to get one. I'm going to have to just try to think about other stuff...

Me too. I was going to try to find a USP 9 compact, but I may get one of these instead.

 

[Name Taken]

I'm interested in this and Sigs new striker fire. Wish this was a bit smaller as it hits the "just big enough" not for me to be able to carry it based off of the dimensions posted so far.

 

[smokey]

I'm interested in this and Sigs new striker fire. Wish this was a bit smaller as it hits the "just big enough" not for me to be able to carry it based off of the dimensions posted so far.

bleh, now there's a gun I instantly had no use for. One of the big selling points of a striker-fired gun is undercutting the backstrap at the tang to get a nice high grip for a resulting low bore-axis and reduced muzzle flip. The sig may as well have a hammer there because the slide is a mile high over your forearm. Even the hk is relatively high compared to other designs...but it's not too very absurd and everything else makes up for it being a little higher.

 

[spartan2250]

Trigger is supposed to be as good or better than the Walther (Larry Vickers says it is the best striker fired pistol yet). It will have a somewhat higher bore axis than a Glock but it will point much better. Probably a fair trade off. H&K invented polymer and striker fired pistols with the VP-70 back in the 1970's. It even had 3 round burst capibility.

H&K - There is no substitute

 

[spartan2250]

You don't need parts for an H&K. They are ready to go AS-IS. With a Glock you must immeadiatley replace the sights and most people replace the trigger, slide stop, and mag release.

 

[clandestine]

You don't need parts for an H&K. They are ready to go AS-IS. With a Glock you must immeadiatley replace the sights and most people replace the trigger, slide stop, and mag release.

All machines need replacement parts if you use them. I fixed guns professionally for 10 years. Im a huge HK fan, but I can still acknowledge weak points of even HK's. Spare parts (Not Aftermarket) are expensive and hard to get depending on the model.

HK's do break and when they do they go down hard.

 

[inkd]

You don't need parts for an H&K. They are ready to go AS-IS. With a Glock you must immeadiatley replace the sights and most people replace the trigger, slide stop, and mag release.

People may choose to replace the sights, it's not a must.

I shot a bone stock Glock 34 in IDPA for years and did very well with it.

I had a USP in the early 90's when they first came out. Shot it for years and liked it well enough. Shot a Glock 17 for the first time in 2000 and ditched the USP and never looked back.

 

[Corporal Doug]

Can you explain in more detail why a reliable design is only for "basic shooters", other than personal preference? God knows if you see me at the range I want you to think I am more than just a basic shooter.

Ok you got me there, as far as preference goes. I was only talking about the simplicity of pulling the trigger and bang. Some people don't care or want to be bothered with range time as a hobby, they just want a simple gun for home protection. By no means was I saying that striker fired guns are for basic shooters alone. Guess I was just trying to keep my post too short.


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