Need AR Suggestions

[Bigfoot21075]

Hello,

I have not kept up with the developments in the AR line of H-Bar rifles. I want to get my nephew a new one. I am looking for suggestions of a good reliable entry to mid level AR Heavy Bar Platform that can handle both .223 and 5.56 rounds. (I have a ton of both and dies for 5.56). Any suggestions?

 

[KRC]

Something chambered in .223 Wylde will handle both .223/5.56 loadings, but you have not provided much info as to the intended primary use(s) for the rifle, the age/size characteristics of your nephew, nor an approximate budget. There is a lot to choose from.

 

[308Scout]

First AR

Hey yall. So I’m looking into purchasing my first long gun. I was going to have my dealer build one but pricing alone is going to be a little more than I bargain for with just the upper. I saw this at another store locally but on their site. I was going to purchase and do a few upgrades myself...

www.mdshooters.com

 

[Bigfoot21075]

Something chambered in .223 Wylde will handle both .223/5.56 loadings, but you have not provided much info as to the intended primary use(s) for the rifle, the age/size characteristics of your nephew, nor an approximate budget. There is a lot to choose from.

You are correct - my apologies. it is early . This would be sporting use, target, game, and so on on private land. He is 21, very fit and an IT guy. He knows how to shoot, has taken hunter safety and is actually a very good shot using my equipment. I would love to stay around $1500.00 if possible. Last year i got him a Remington 860 pump 12 gauge that he really likes.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

Lots of threads discussing this but based on the criteria mentioned, the IWI Zion 15 is a great option. They’re made right up the road in PA and you can buy a well equipped one with an Mlok rail and B5 systems stock and grip for around $1000.

 

[Blaster229]

Anyone with a 1500 budget can go another hundred bucks and get a LWRCI Direct Impingement IC (Individual Carbine) with fluted and twisted heavy barrel.
Ambi bolt and mag release. The rail is proprietary, so if you want a longer one, you have to buy theirs, but you don't have to be a gunsmith to do it. It is just 10 bolts.
One of the best production rifles on the market. I just bought one.

 

[MattFinals718]

I would just go to an MD FFL and try out a bunch of ARs, including the guns that have "heavy" barrels in name only. You're going to get a lot of opinions here, many of which will conflict with each other. The only advice I can give you is to generally avoid "entry"-level ARs like the Radical guns, and go for good middle-of-the-pack price range brands.

Some things to consider:
- What caliber does he need? Remember that only 5.56 guns need to be HBAR - ARs in .300 Blackout, .308, etc. do not need heavy barrels.
- What barrel length do you think he'll need? 14.5" (with P/Wed muzzle device), 16", 18", or 20"?
- Do you think he'll prefer a carbine-length, mid-length, or rifle-length gas system?
- What kind of optic will he need or put on it, and are you including that in the cost? Will he be OK with irons, a reflex optic such as a red-dot, or does he need a magnified optic of some kind?

 

[MattFinals718]

Anyone with a 1500 budget can go another hundred bucks and get a LWRCI Direct Impingement IC (Individual Carbine) with fluted and twisted heavy barrel.
Ambi bolt and mag release. The rail is proprietary, so if you want a longer one, you have to buy theirs, but you don't have to be a gunsmith to do it. It is just 10 bolts.
One of the best production rifles on the market. I just bought one.

That's always been my personal annoyance with LWRCI - they're not very upgradable with anything other than the company's own parts. I like the fact that they started in MD and make their rifles MD-compliant, but I wish that they offered rifle designs that were more customizable by current market standards.

If OP wants to buy one of their IC-style rifles, I'm at least going to advise that he make sure to buy one with an M-LOK handguard; I've always found it weird that LWRCI has stuck with their proprietary attachment system for so long, even after the rest of the AR market has gone to M-LOK.

 

[Blaster229]

That's always been my personal annoyance with LWRCI - they're not very upgradable with anything other than the company's own parts. I like the fact that they started in MD and make their rifles MD-compliant, but I wish that they offered rifle designs that were more customizable by current market standards.

If OP wants to buy one of their IC-style rifles, I'm at least going to advise that he make sure to buy one with an M-LOK handguard; I've always found it weird that LWRCI has stuck with their proprietary attachment system for so long, even after the rest of the AR market has gone to M-LOK.

Pretty sure they're all M lok now. There was no choice.
The only thing proprietary is their rails. That's no big deal. And like I said, if you want a longer one, it doesn't require a gunsmith and special tools. 10 bolts and you are swapped out.
Not everyone needs to tinker and try different parts and pieces. Someone into that should just build their own.

 

[MattFinals718]

Pretty sure they're all M lok now. There was no choice.

Looking at their web site, I'm seeing a mix of rifles with M-LOK and others that take the bolt-on Picatinny sections. The regular DI IC seems to be M-LOK only, but the IC Discovery takes the old-style attachment system. Not to mention that many of the piston rifles still don't come with M-LOK yet.

 

[Blaster229]

Looking at their web site, I'm seeing a mix of rifles with M-LOK and others that take the bolt-on Picatinny sections. The regular DI IC seems to be M-LOK only, but the IC Discovery takes the old-style attachment system. Not to mention that many of the piston rifles still don't come with M-LOK yet.

Ok, so what? It's not for you. Apparently they have a market.

 

[MattFinals718]

Ok, so what? It's not for you. Apparently they have a market.

No, but nowadays, I expect that any prospective AR owner (especially someone on a budget) would prefer to save money by not having to buy separate rail sections to attach accessories, so it is useful for the OP to consider that benefit. There's a reason that most AR makers have ditched the type of proprietary mounting approach that LWRCI uses on most of its rails.

 

[Blaster229]

No, but nowadays, I expect that any prospective AR owner (especially someone on a budget) would prefer to save money by not having to buy separate rail sections to attach accessories, so it is useful for the OP to consider that benefit. There's a reason that most AR makers have ditched the type of proprietary mounting approach that LWRCI uses on most of its rails.

I am getting accessories for mine and it's not an issue. I can get a Surefire, VFG, riser for whatever scope or dot I want, iron sights, and everything else. What am I missing?

Well, it's not for the OP. It's a first AR for a 21 yo. Let it be good enough for him. Again, you assume everyone wants to tinker and replace, that's most likely not the case with the average AR owner.

Again, he should take that 1500 and build his own AR. Geezus.

 

[RJRjr]

I like the IWI Zion for the 8-900$ price range. Will need to buy an optic or sights though. Or the Colt Socom if he can find one.

 

[MattFinals718]

I am getting accessories for mine and it's not an issue. I can get a Surefire, VFG, riser for whatever scope or dot I want, iron sights, and everything else. What am I missing?

Well, it's not for the OP. It's a first AR for a 21 yo. Let it be good enough for him. Again, you assume everyone wants to tinker and replace, that's most likely not the case with the average AR owner.

Again, he should take that 1500 and build his own AR. Geezus.

The issue is not whether you can get accessories, but the additional money spent on the LWRC rail sections that are required to attach said accessories, because that is how the LWRCI rifles with the proprietary attachment system mount anything on the rail. That can add up in $$$$$.

And yes, I know it's not for the OP, which is exactly why I'm advising him to consider costs carefully. It's not a "tinker and replace" issue, it's a matter of simply being able to outfit the rifle with what his nephew needs, at minimal cost.

I do agree that spending $1500 on building an AR might be more cost-effective.

 

[Squaregrouper]

I also agree with the IWI Zion for an entry to mid level AR as the OP requested.
Yes, Daniel Defense, LWRCI, et al are better than The Zion, but they aren't exactly budget friendly.

 

[trickg]

Hello,

I have not kept up with the developments in the AR line of H-Bar rifles. I want to get my nephew a new one. I am looking for suggestions of a good reliable entry to mid level AR Heavy Bar Platform that can handle both .223 and 5.56 rounds. (I have a ton of both and dies for 5.56). Any suggestions?

Just a quick fact on this - you don't have dies for 5.56 and 223 - you have 223 dies. They may be designated as such, but dimensionally they are identical.

Regarding HBARS, my first AR was a blem Delton HBAR rifle kit - all I needed was the lower, which I put together with a Seekins lower and basic lower parts kit. Of that, the trigger was garbage, so I replaced it with a cartridge style trigger from CMC - I think I got that on sale for something like $89 at the time.

For $1500 there are a lot of options. If I had $1500, I'd do the build myself, but I have all of the tools to do it, and I've done it a couple of times so I have a general understanding of how everything goes together.

For what it's worth, even with the mods and the optic, my Delton HBAR setup is still a good bit under $1000.

 

[Bigfoot21075]

Just a quick fact on this - you don't have dies for 5.56 and 223 - you have 223 dies. They may be designated as such, but dimensionally they are identical.

Regarding HBARS, my first AR was a blem Delton HBAR rifle kit - all I needed was the lower, which I put together with a Seekins lower and basic lower parts kit. Of that, the trigger was garbage, so I replaced it with a cartridge style trigger from CMC - I think I got that on sale for something like $89 at the time.

For $1500 there are a lot of options. If I had $1500, I'd do the build myself, but I have all of the tools to do it, and I've done it a couple of times so I have a general understanding of how everything goes together.

For what it's worth, even with the mods and the optic, my Delton HBAR setup is still a good bit under $1000.

Technically you are correct The difference in specification is in the chamber throat not the ammunition. The longer throat allows for about an additional grain of powder.

THANKS everyone, I appreciate the suggestions. I will go have a look. I hope the looking does not end up in a new toy for me as well..... You know how that goes.

 

[outrider58]

There are slight differences between the 5.56 and the .223 cases, but those differences are negligible, just for the record.

And for the record, I have seen and mic'd 5.56 chambers with less lead than supposed .223 chambers. There's only one way to be sure. Reamers wear.

 

[calicojack]

I like the IWI Zion for the 8-900$ price range. Will need to buy an optic or sights though. Or the Colt Socom if he can find one.

These ^^ are good suggestions. DELTON was mentioned and I think those are good, and they have HBAR models. Colt FTW.