MSP Appeals to the Office of Administrative Hearings

[ironpony]

What is the connection between the courts and the MSP LD that would require them both make decisions on G&S exactly the same? if it happens that way.



Can't wait for the first cases to go through, this is an anti state so justice will move quickly to remove rights that took what 1 - 2 years to get a license unrestricted.

 

[rseymorejr]

Would the determination of G&S at one of these hearings be binding on the MSP in the future or able to be appealed to a higher court?

 

[Schipperke]

Would the determination of G&S at one of these hearings be binding on the MSP in the future or able to be appealed to a higher court?

Precedent no. The ruling at OAH can be appealed.

My friend I'm sorry and not sure if you are kidding but Frosh has no authority over MSP. The only state department Frosh has authority over is the OAG. He does have authority over the Assistant AG's who are assigned to MSP, but none over MSP itself. MSP is directly under Hogan's control. And the MSP superintendent serves at the pleasure of Hogan.

This is what I thought as well. If MSP went quasi shall issue as other states have done with "may issue" ability, how does Frosh or Bowen even enter the picture? Are they able to review every application and make the decision? Perhaps legislature would jump in and change who decides, like maybe give it to the Maryland Department of Agriculture.

 

[swinokur]

Who showed up representing MSP LD at your appeal case?

Anyone from MSP LD?

 

[montoya32]

Wonder how the OAH addresses statements given by the MSP at HPRB hearings? When the SP admits to something, under oath and on the record, how is that info considered by the OAH judge?

 

[swinokur]

Will the transcribed testimony from HPRB meetings be made available to both sides?

Will it have to be subpoenaed?

 

[Schipperke]

Who showed up representing MSP LD at your appeal case?

Anyone from MSP LD?

Mr. Bowen, for his client.
No one from MSP LD was required to show for a stay hearing, nor would I, if represented by an attorney.
When the Judge advised Bowen to drop the entire appeal right there, he stated he needed to discuss it with his client.

 

[swinokur]

Sure, his client.

I think he already knew he blew it. I’m sure he’d went back to Pikesville and asked MSP for their input

 

[GTOGUNNER]

Who keeps a meeting transcript. I thought only the minutes were kept.

 

[swinokur]

It’s recorded. So it can be transcribed

 

[plinkerton]

Won't this help in the long run?

These cases are nothing more than trial balloons. MSP is sending them to the administrative law judge just to see what their stance will be regarding State Police denial. Since these judges can ignore the findings and ruling from the HPRB it will basically come down to the applicant''s good and substantial reason versus the state police and completely shut out the board which is the intent of this law anyway. If these judges stand by the state police denial and they probably will, you're going to see nearly every decision by the HPRB appealed and overturned. And for those of you who had to go through a board hearing to appeal an MSP denial chances are probably pretty good that when you come up for renewal you're going to face the same action from the state police.

If every appeal to HPRB gets overturned would that not turn into a lawsuit that could be won in Federal court?

 

[swinokur]

Based on what?

 

[plinkerton]

Based on what?

Every time someone gets a permit through HPRB the court over turns it, if 100%, or close to it, of wins go to MSP, would that no show a pattern that could be used against the state?


Couple that with the similarity of the DC law that got overturned …. and maybe? Or do I need to wake up from my dream?

 

[Schipperke]

Wonder how the OAH addresses statements given by the MSP at HPRB hearings? When the SP admits to something, under oath and on the record, how is that info considered by the OAH judge?

The answer from a Judge is always, "I'll give it the weight it deserves"
What some with skin in the game perceive as damning statements, is often unremarkable.

 

[swinokur]

Only if it can be proven that a mistake in law was made. IIRC it was mentioned OAH rulings can be appealed to Circuit Court but I don’t think OAH rulings are precedent to a Court.

If one case gets decide for an applicant, there goes your argument.

But IANAL

 

[danb]

Mr. Bowen, for his client.
No one from MSP LD was required to show for a stay hearing, nor would I, if represented by an attorney.
When the Judge advised Bowen to drop the entire appeal right there, he stated he needed to discuss it with his client.

This piques my curiosity. Why would the judge advice Bowen to drop the appeal?

 

[swinokur]

Because the applicants permit had expired and had been reissued with same restrictions

Genius

 

[Defense Rifle]

Just goes to show you what an anti-constitution agency MSP really is. They put up hurdles making it hard for law-abiding citizens to carry at every step. They have turned the 2A into a class-based privilege system. The hatred for the 2A runs deep at all levels of Maryland government, perhaps the only exception being the useless governor.

 

[Bob A]

Wonder how the OAH addresses statements given by the MSP at HPRB hearings? When the SP admits to something, under oath and on the record, how is that info considered by the OAH judge?

My (limited) understanding is that the OAH hearing is "de novo" - meaning that the case starts over from the beginning. Nothing said or done at HPRB carries over, or is given any weight in the OAH hearing.

 

[Schipperke]

This piques my curiosity. Why would the judge advice Bowen to drop the appeal?

Case was moot. The license in question had already been renewed with restrictions back in place.