MSI: Planning, Actions and Future

[mxrider]

If you'd like to help with training, please let us know by filling out this form

https://marylandshallissue.org/sb281-training-and-permitting-help/

done

 

[trailman]

So it's been a bit quiet from the official MSI side of the house lately. We all knew there was a strong chance something onerous would pass, so there has been a plan beyond the general assembly from day one. Consider this the next step on the path. Right now execution requires a certain degree of discretion, but it's important we talk about this in detail when the time comes.

Let me go through some of the items we can discuss at a high level and let you know what we're working on.

What We Are Doing

Litigation

Yes.
​

Member and Community Services

This law was designed specifically to make it hard for people to keep and bear arms. The Handgun Licensing provisions are designed specifically to burden ownership, by making it too expensive and time consuming for people to meet the hurdles. You need to jump through three key hoops: fingerprinting; training; and application. Add to this a probable requirement for notarization of paperwork. The training requirement alone could cost upwards of $150.

MSI is going to become the largest training organization in the state. We are teaming with the good people in other groups to make sure that lawful people throughout this state have a place to go to meet these burdens. We will create trainers where they do not exist, and make sure you have a way to meet the state's requirements.

MSI will provide "one stop" processing for licensing issues. Expect to see us moving throughout the state with trainers, livescan machines, notaries and application reviewers to make sure that applicants get it all done in one place. These services - to the extent we can control costs - are going to be low cost or free. This is community service. This is what you expect us to do.

​

I'd like to make a comment that probably won't be very well received and its on this part. IMO you are helping the administration out. As I read the bill basically only state certified instructors can teach and then there is the pesky range qual. Why are we helping the Governor put in place something he knew didnt exist. This is gonna be harsh but the more people that can't get what they want the more people are going to be beating down the doors. If we are going to win this in the jury box and the ballot box why are we helping the gov't win the case.

We should be pushing ANY and all ranges to refuse State sanctioned certification shoots. And give NO help to enabling more State sanctioned instructors. If there is no training and no range qual facilities then I would suspect that would place a great burden on the State to try and claim our civil rights aren't being violated. How in Christs creation can we claim that this is burdensome if MSI is the organization that is working to ameliorate the impact of the Governers bill. "See it isnt so bad the very organization that was fighting us on all this fixed it for us, no problem anymore judge".

This is a war and we are helping the other side. OCT 1st or whenever ALL guns sales should come to a screeching halt because the State can't meet its own laws, hang em. That will win in a jury box.

Yeah people are gonna get hurt feelings but we need to win this and the way to do that is not only with outreach. Little folks are gonna get pissed but it will hit big people too, it will hit everybody. Those actions will win in a ballot box.

Edit:
Summary:
Right now making more gun owners won't help our cause. Once they get them 9 out of 10 won't care anymore. That's basic human psyc 101. Making sure people that want guns can't get them will piss them off at the requirements and help us, and we don't even have to do anything except point them at the cause, Annapolis​

 

[teratos]

I'd like to make a comment that probably won't be very well received and its on this part. IMO you are helping the administration out. As I read the bill basically only state certified instructors can teach and then there is the pesky range qual. Why are we helping the Governor put in place something he knew didnt exist. This is gonna be harsh but the more people that can't get what they want the more people are going to be beating down the doors. If we are going to win this in the jury box and the ballot box why are we helping the gov't win the case.

We should be pushing ANY and all ranges to refuse State sanctioned certification shoots. And give NO help to enabling more State sanctioned instructors. If there is no training and no range qual facilities then I would suspect that would place a great burden on the State to try and claim our civil rights aren't being violated. How in Christs creation can we claim that this is burdensome if MSI is the organization that is working to ameliorate the impact of the Governers bill. "See it isnt so bad the very organization that was fighting us on all this fixed it for us, no problem anymore judge".

This is a war and we are helping the other side. OCT 1st or whenever ALL guns sales should come to a screeching halt because the State can't meet its own laws, hang em. That will win in a jury box.

Yeah people are gonna get hurt feelings but we need to win this and the way to do that is not only with outreach. Little folks are gonna get pissed but it will hit big people too, it will hit everybody. Those actions will win in a ballot box.

Edit:
Summary:
Right now making more gun owners won't help our cause. Once they get them 9 out of 10 won't care anymore. That's basic human psyc 101. Making sure people that want guns can't get them will piss them off at the requirements and help us, and we don't even have to do anything except point them at the cause, Annapolis

Live fire was removed from the final bill.

 

[JasonB]

Live fire was removed from the final bill.

Via amendment? I thought the amendment to remove it failed?

 

[mac1_131]

Via amendment? I thought the amendment to remove it failed?

that might be the one that was tied and one delegate realized that and changed his vote, and the dems didn't catch that so it passed

it's out

 

[JasonB]

Well that is some good news. I must have missed the vote change on it.

 

[teratos]

16 of this section shall: 17
(1) be offered by the Commission; or 18
(2) contain a handgun safety component and be conducted by an 19 individual or organization certified by: 20
(i) the Commission; 21
(ii) the Department of Natural Resources; 22
(iii) the Department of State Police; or 23
(iv) any reputable organization: 24
1. that has as one of its objectives the promotion of 25 competency and safety in handling handguns; and 26
2. whose course has been determined by the Commission 27 to meet the regulations adopted by the Commission. 28
(d) Any course offered by the Commission under subsection (c) of this section: 29
SENATE BILL 281 19
(1) shall be offered free of charge or fee; 1
(2) may not be more than 2 hours in duration; 2
(3) shall be conducted or offered at least once each week in all 3 geographic areas of the State; 4
(4) shall be available after regular business hours; 5
(5) shall be open to each individual required by law to complete the 6 firearms safety training course, within 2 weeks after request of the individual; 7
(6) shall only require attendance throughout the duration of the course 8 in order to complete the course successfully; and 9
(7) may not require any skills or knowledge testing in the use of a 10 regulated firearm in order to complete the course successfully.]

Page 18-19 of the final bill, unless I read it wrong. http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

 

[Brooklyn]

I'd like to make a comment that probably won't be very well received and its on this part. IMO you are helping the administration out. As I read the bill basically only state certified instructors can teach and then there is the pesky range qual. Why are we helping the Governor put in place something he knew didnt exist. This is gonna be harsh but the more people that can't get what they want the more people are going to be beating down the doors. If we are going to win this in the jury box and the ballot box why are we helping the gov't win the case.

We should be pushing ANY and all ranges to refuse State sanctioned certification shoots. And give NO help to enabling more State sanctioned instructors. If there is no training and no range qual facilities then I would suspect that would place a great burden on the State to try and claim our civil rights aren't being violated. How in Christs creation can we claim that this is burdensome if MSI is the organization that is working to ameliorate the impact of the Governers bill. "See it isnt so bad the very organization that was fighting us on all this fixed it for us, no problem anymore judge".

This is a war and we are helping the other side. OCT 1st or whenever ALL guns sales should come to a screeching halt because the State can't meet its own laws, hang em. That will win in a jury box.

Yeah people are gonna get hurt feelings but we need to win this and the way to do that is not only with outreach. Little folks are gonna get pissed but it will hit big people too, it will hit everybody. Those actions will win in a ballot box.

Edit:
Summary:
Right now making more gun owners won't help our cause. Once they get them 9 out of 10 won't care anymore. That's basic human psyc 101. Making sure people that want guns can't get them will piss them off at the requirements and help us, and we don't even have to do anything except point them at the cause, Annapolis

If gun sales stop there will be no flls by the time we get to the ballot box.

It happend in NYC and it happened in DC it is happening in CA and it will happen here.

We must keep our ffl alive ..

 

[Brooklyn]

16 of this section shall: 17
(1) be offered by the Commission; or 18
(2) contain a handgun safety component and be conducted by an 19 individual or organization certified by: 20
(i) the Commission; 21
(ii) the Department of Natural Resources; 22
(iii) the Department of State Police; or 23
(iv) any reputable organization: 24
1. that has as one of its objectives the promotion of 25 competency and safety in handling handguns; and 26
2. whose course has been determined by the Commission 27 to meet the regulations adopted by the Commission. 28
(d) Any course offered by the Commission under subsection (c) of this section: 29
SENATE BILL 281 19
(1) shall be offered free of charge or fee; 1
(2) may not be more than 2 hours in duration; 2
(3) shall be conducted or offered at least once each week in all 3 geographic areas of the State; 4
(4) shall be available after regular business hours; 5
(5) shall be open to each individual required by law to complete the 6 firearms safety training course, within 2 weeks after request of the individual; 7
(6) shall only require attendance throughout the duration of the course 8 in order to complete the course successfully; and 9
(7) may not require any skills or knowledge testing in the use of a 10 regulated firearm in order to complete the course successfully.]

Page 18-19 of the final bill, unless I read it wrong. http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

Wow that section got gutted.

Which is good ....

 

[Gbh]

16 of this section shall: 17
(1) be offered by the Commission; or 18
(2) contain a handgun safety component and be conducted by an 19 individual or organization certified by: 20
(i) the Commission; 21
(ii) the Department of Natural Resources; 22
(iii) the Department of State Police; or 23
(iv) any reputable organization: 24
1. that has as one of its objectives the promotion of 25 competency and safety in handling handguns; and 26
2. whose course has been determined by the Commission 27 to meet the regulations adopted by the Commission. 28
(d) Any course offered by the Commission under subsection (c) of this section: 29
SENATE BILL 281 19
(1) shall be offered free of charge or fee; 1
(2) may not be more than 2 hours in duration; 2
(3) shall be conducted or offered at least once each week in all 3 geographic areas of the State; 4
(4) shall be available after regular business hours; 5
(5) shall be open to each individual required by law to complete the 6 firearms safety training course, within 2 weeks after request of the individual; 7
(6) shall only require attendance throughout the duration of the course 8 in order to complete the course successfully; and 9
(7) may not require any skills or knowledge testing in the use of a 10 regulated firearm in order to complete the course successfully.]

So COULD it be a 2 hr. video or streaming classroom course online?

 

[gmhowell]

I'd like to make a comment that probably won't be very well received and its on this part.

Yeah, you're right, I'm not receiving it well.

Personally, I'm in favor of everything that gets people more training.

I used to be an MSF instructor. I've owned a half dozen or more bikes (maybe double digits if you count non-runners). I saw tons of people get into it like I did: via a friend or relative. It works like this (in my case. And I saw it dozens, if not hundreds of times): My brother wanted to take the class. He didn't want to go it alone. I took it with him despite zero interest in motorcycles. By the following week, I was hitting every bike shop between Chaptico and Baltimore, just looking at stuff. When I got done with grad school, I had my first bike within two weeks.

This will introduce new people to guns. And that is never a bad thing. Even those who don't 'get the bug' like I did with bikes, are going to be less afraid and more understanding.

 

[StickerLT]

16 of this section shall: 17
(1) be offered by the Commission; or 18
(2) contain a handgun safety component and be conducted by an 19 individual or organization certified by: 20
(i) the Commission; 21
(ii) the Department of Natural Resources; 22
(iii) the Department of State Police; or 23
(iv) any reputable organization: 24
1. that has as one of its objectives the promotion of 25 competency and safety in handling handguns; and 26
2. whose course has been determined by the Commission 27 to meet the regulations adopted by the Commission. 28
(d) Any course offered by the Commission under subsection (c) of this section: 29
SENATE BILL 281 19
(1) shall be offered free of charge or fee; 1
(2) may not be more than 2 hours in duration; 2
(3) shall be conducted or offered at least once each week in all 3 geographic areas of the State; 4
(4) shall be available after regular business hours; 5
(5) shall be open to each individual required by law to complete the 6 firearms safety training course, within 2 weeks after request of the individual; 7
(6) shall only require attendance throughout the duration of the course 8 in order to complete the course successfully; and 9
(7) may not require any skills or knowledge testing in the use of a 10 regulated firearm in order to complete the course successfully.

Page 18-19 of the final bill, unless I read it wrong. http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf
[/B]

Wow, didn't know this. It reads like the MD Hunters Safety Course may meet the training req.?

 

[teratos]

Nope, wrong section of the bill.

It is still 4 hours. Sorry for the blue balls

 

[Brooklyn]

Yeah, you're right, I'm not receiving it well.

Personally, I'm in favor of everything that gets people more training.

I used to be an MSF instructor. I've owned a half dozen or more bikes (maybe double digits if you count non-runners). I saw tons of people get into it like I did: via a friend or relative. It works like this (in my case. And I saw it dozens, if not hundreds of times): My brother wanted to take the class. He didn't want to go it alone. I took it with him despite zero interest in motorcycles. By the following week, I was hitting every bike shop between Chaptico and Baltimore, just looking at stuff. When I got done with grad school, I had my first bike within two weeks.

This will introduce new people to guns. And that is never a bad thing. Even those who don't 'get the bug' like I did with bikes, are going to be less afraid and more understanding.

Should have started an outreach program years ago.

I was motivated but I did not know where to start-- for years like 20 years . I grew up in NYC and it is bad.

Sun Tz says take your enemy's strength and use it against him.

The strength is disinformation . We will undisinform.

We will win more allies with this than anything else we have done.

Not everyone can be converted, but the way some shops treat new bes is a form of assisted suicide...

I am on board.

 

[esqappellate]

16 of this section shall: 17
(1) be offered by the Commission; or 18
(2) contain a handgun safety component and be conducted by an 19 individual or organization certified by: 20
(i) the Commission; 21
(ii) the Department of Natural Resources; 22
(iii) the Department of State Police; or 23
(iv) any reputable organization: 24
1. that has as one of its objectives the promotion of 25 competency and safety in handling handguns; and 26
2. whose course has been determined by the Commission 27 to meet the regulations adopted by the Commission. 28
(d) Any course offered by the Commission under subsection (c) of this section: 29
SENATE BILL 281 19
(1) shall be offered free of charge or fee; 1
(2) may not be more than 2 hours in duration; 2
(3) shall be conducted or offered at least once each week in all 3 geographic areas of the State; 4
(4) shall be available after regular business hours; 5
(5) shall be open to each individual required by law to complete the 6 firearms safety training course, within 2 weeks after request of the individual; 7
(6) shall only require attendance throughout the duration of the course 8 in order to complete the course successfully; and 9
(7) may not require any skills or knowledge testing in the use of a 10 regulated firearm in order to complete the course successfully.]

Page 18-19 of the final bill, unless I read it wrong. http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

I think you ARE reading it wrong. Note the bold bracket right before "(b)." Stuff between brackets means that part is deleted!


EXPLANATION: CAPITALS INDICATE MATTER ADDED TO EXISTING LAW. [Brackets] indicate matter deleted from existing law.
Underlining indicates amendments to bill.
Strike out indicates matter stricken from the bill by amendment or deleted from the law by
amendment.
Italics indicate opposite chamber/conference committee amendments.

 

[teratos]

I think you ARE reading it wrong. Note the bold bracket right before "(b)." Stuff between brackets means that part is deleted!


EXPLANATION: CAPITALS INDICATE MATTER ADDED TO EXISTING LAW. [Brackets] indicate matter deleted from existing law.
Underlining indicates amendments to bill.
Strike out indicates matter stricken from the bill by amendment or deleted from the law by
amendment.
Italics indicate opposite chamber/conference committee amendments.

Yeah, I figured it out. I need to print this guide out. Why can't they just make a bill I can read without a secret decoder ring?

 

[dblas]

16 of this section shall: 17
(1) be offered by the Commission; or 18
(2) contain a handgun safety component and be conducted by an 19 individual or organization certified by: 20
(i) the Commission; 21
(ii) the Department of Natural Resources; 22
(iii) the Department of State Police; or 23
(iv) any reputable organization: 24
1. that has as one of its objectives the promotion of 25 competency and safety in handling handguns; and 26
2. whose course has been determined by the Commission 27 to meet the regulations adopted by the Commission. 28
(d) Any course offered by the Commission under subsection (c) of this section: 29
SENATE BILL 281 19
(1) shall be offered free of charge or fee; 1
(2) may not be more than 2 hours in duration; 2
(3) shall be conducted or offered at least once each week in all 3 geographic areas of the State; 4
(4) shall be available after regular business hours; 5
(5) shall be open to each individual required by law to complete the 6 firearms safety training course, within 2 weeks after request of the individual; 7
(6) shall only require attendance throughout the duration of the course 8 in order to complete the course successfully; and 9
(7) may not require any skills or knowledge testing in the use of a 10 regulated firearm in order to complete the course successfully.]

Page 18-19 of the final bill, unless I read it wrong. http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/sb/sb0281E.pdf

The part you highlighted is for any training provided by the commission.

Look at the portion I highlighted above.

 

[teratos]

The part you highlighted is for any training provided by the commission.

Look at the portion I highlighted above.

Yeah, I read on and found it. It's a hard read.

 

[dblas]

Yeah, I read on and found it. It's a hard read.

All is forgiven, the hair must have been on vacation.

 

[teratos]

All is forgiven, the hair must have been on vacation.

It's a burden I must bear.