Morning "TURN-COAT" Joe, Mental Health, and Guns

[AssMan]

I'm just an a**hole.



--
posted from my Obama Phone

 

[T'Challa]

I think people who need it should get handouts from the government to get on their feet and that nobody should die because they can't afford healthcare or food. Do I think there are abuses that should be cleared up? Yeah, but I don't think we should just cut away programs without having something in place for those who need it.

I do disagree with my fellow liberals on the big bad war machine though. DoD spending on technological research and projects provides many advances that I do like and think we should fund.

I agree that people who need help should receive it so long as there are checks and balances in place to stave off abuse. With the resources available in America, we should not have as many homeless, sick or hungry people. I agree that DoD spending has brought society many benefits such as the GPS, PDA's and tablets, etc. but we should also be mindful not to spend on weapons etc. without a clear need to do so.

 

[T'Challa]

He was being sarcastic, hence the winky face lol.

But good to see you are a thinking person.

Ok. I thought the winky face had something to do with Rachel's jacket.

 

[MadCat0911]

If you really feel that way, then go out and do it! Make donations of your own (not saying you don't), start your own charity organizations, and help people in your community.

There is nothing that the government can give that isn't first stolen from someone else. It's fine if you believe that people should get help, I do too. But it is not morally right to demand that that help must come involuntarily and be stolen from others.

And I do.

I also understand your argument and don't have anything against it either. However, I hold the belief that government is a social contract between the government and those they govern. Government is supposed to provide for general infrastructure, defense, and welfare. In return, we give them the power to govern and pay our fair share in helping them provide for their public services. As long as government holds up its end, we hold up ours. When it fails to do so, or abuses its power, we adjust who's in power.

Well, or we used to, until corporations came along. But hey, I like the cyberpunk genre, so let's see how this plays out

 

[Haides]

And I do.

I also understand your argument and don't have anything against it either. However, I hold the belief that government is a social contract between the government and those they govern. Government is supposed to provide for general infrastructure, defense, and welfare. In return, we give them the power to govern and pay our fair share in helping them provide for their public services. As long as government holds up its end, we hold up ours. When it fails to do so, or abuses its power, we adjust who's in power.

But I didn't sign a contract, did you? What separates a government from a mafia demanding "protection fees" from people and businesses that operate on it's "turf?" Saying that I must pay my 'fair share' is akin to saying that I somehow owe the government/society something, which I don't; no one does. If, by the simple act of being born within this country's borders I become eternally indentured to those that call themselves "government," what difference is that from slavery?

Taxation is nothing but theft through threats and coercion. If you don't pay their "protection fees" they'll kidnap you at gun point.

Well, or we used to, until corporations came along. But hey, I like the cyberpunk genre, so let's see how this plays out

This is one of the biggest problems in our country. Corporatism is to fascism what socialism is to communism.

 

[MadCat0911]

But I didn't sign a contract, did you? What separates a government from a mafia demanding "protection fees" from people and businesses that operate on it's "turf?" Saying that I must pay my 'fair share' is akin to saying that I somehow owe the government/society something, which I don't; no one does. If, by the simple act of being born within this country's borders I become eternally indentured to those that call themselves "government," what difference is that from slavery?

Taxation is nothing but theft through threats and coercion. If you don't pay their "protection fees" they'll kidnap you at gun point.

First, they'll let you leave. Also, there are probably places still left in America where you can live off the grid and not have to pay anything into the government and not enjoy the benefits of having one either. Also, we're social animals. Social animals tend to abide by their packs rules or get kicked out. It's not slavery, it's just us playing the part of the pack. Every pack member has to help take care of the pack and play its part.

Second, I figure it's kind of like Christianity, if you believe in it anyways. We're all in some contract with a power that came in to place before we were born and set down rules. We have to abide by those rules until such a time the power amends them. Luckily, we have a say in what this power does because we can vote and petition our government.

 

[Haides]

First, they'll let you leave. Also, there are probably places still left in America where you can live off the grid and not have to pay anything into the government and not enjoy the benefits of having one either. Also, we're social animals. Social animals tend to abide by their packs rules or get kicked out. It's not slavery, it's just us playing the part of the pack. Every pack member has to help take care of the pack and play its part.

Why should I have to leave? They're the ones that suck.

Honestly I can hardly think of any benefits to having a government at all. And before you say it, no, they aren't the only ones that can build roads.
I think you're blurring the lines between society & government. Government has one purpose- to protect the rights of it's citizens.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Just because something is good for a society or group to do together does not make it good for government to do (i.e. caring for the poor and the sick, regulating wages, keeping us safe, etc.)

Second, I figure it's kind of like Christianity, if you believe in it anyways. We're all in some contract with a power that came in to place before we were born and set down rules. We have to abide by those rules until such a time the power amends them. Luckily, we have a say in what this power does because we can vote and petition our government.

I do. The difference is that this power gets it's power from the consent of the governed. If I do not consent to theft, why should I be jailed when I am the one who is being wronged? Two wolves and a lamb, and all that...

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Hopefully your post is some sort of joke where the punchline is not apparent. I view multiple news sites and consider fox news the enemy news site as I believe that it unfairly maligns minorities. Other news outlets that propagate values and believes that are in consistent to Christianity and the values my parents taught me receive limited attention in my house. At the end of the day, I do not leave it to ANY news outlet to shape my views, opinions and beliefs... God does that.

On the gun control front, well historically it has been evil white democrats and republicans that have infringed on the 2nd amendment rights of blacks. Note, your post introduced the notion of "evil" and "white" not mine. I credit Fox news for at least keeping gun control reports somewhat balanced. The outcry against gun violence at Newtown by the government is misplaced and mistimed. What of the long standing laws in Illinois that banned gun ownership in Chicago, yet in 2012 when Newtown happened, over 500 minority men and women were killed in Chicago. Where is the media's coverage of that? Where is the political outcry against that. For nor any other new outlet uses that might to bring light to an issue that I akin to genocide in our urban centers. The problems in our urban centers began with redlining and apathy on the part of elected officials who allow urban centers to decay.

Yes. Fox news is the enemy news outlet. Until they fair depict all people, they will hold that status in my house.

How is that for a response?

It was in total jest.

I laughed when I saw your post.

I thought the stupid, blue, winking head made that clear.

Not to mention I am never that rude.

A hardy, flag waving salute to you too.

 

[gmhowell]

How is that for a response?

I love you man! But you were cooler when you were called Black Panther.

Honestly I can hardly think of any benefits to having a government at all. And before you say it, no, they aren't the only ones that can build roads.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, Somalia has a very 'open doors' immigration policy with limited government waiting for you.

 

[ea689c]

http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/why-anti-authoritarians-are-diagnosed-as-mentally-ill/

After I read this I started wondering how long it would be before they tried to make the link.

Very interesting article, thanks for posting!

 

[Haides]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, Somalia has a very 'open doors' immigration policy with limited government waiting for you.

What's with all of the statist responses from supposedly "freedom-minded" people? It's always "but who will build the roads?!" or "If you don't like America move to Somalia!"

You do understand these types of responses are one of the favorite running jokes in libertarian circles, correct?

 

[UnlikelyMarksman]

EXCELLENT post, T'CHALLA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, I'd like to know how many folks on this board have a problem with NYPD's "stop and frisk" policy? (I don't own a gun, I'm interested in long-range shooting.) Regardless of what you think of kids in Harlem and Washington Heights, a lot of us "brown" folks aren't going to take YOUR concerns about a police state coming to be seriously if you don't speak out against police state tactics that ARE ALREADY BEING USED in the nation's largest city!!!!(And Philly as well)

 

[marko]

I'm late to the party but -

who need it should get handouts from the government to get on their feet

The problem with that idea is that Leftists give handouts - NOT to 'get people on their feet', but to assure a compliant voting bloc, thus keeping them in power.
If the $6 trillion of the war on Poverty was well spent,
WHY are their Record numbers of people on Food Stamps?
And generational welfare dependent families. On their feet? PLEEEZ.
Hint: because Democrats WANT it that way.

 

[Lemon328i]

I would think that the irrational fear of an inanimate object would be considered a mental defect as well and disqualify such a person from ownership (& militia service) until they demonstrate proficiency with a firearm! Mandatory firearms training for all Americans might well be the way to go to reduce the ranks of anti's. They can't argue against it, as it is militia training too...

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I would think that the irrational fear of an inanimate object would be considered a mental defect as well and disqualify such a person from ownership (& militia service) until they demonstrate proficiency with a firearm! Mandatory firearms training for all Americans might well be the way to go to reduce the ranks of anti's. They can't argue against it, as it is militia training too...

An irrational fear of firearms is most definately a mental disorder. Same thing with snakes.

I say introduce firearm safety in school at a very young age. It will give the kids an appreciation for them and reduce the fear and stigma associated with them.

I try to get as many people as possible to handle my snake. Once they get over the size and the color, there is nothing to be afraid of.

Same thing with guns.

 

[gmhowell]

You do understand these types of responses are one of the favorite running jokes in libertarian circles, correct?

You do understand that libertarians are a favorite running joke in nearly all non-libertarian circles?

What's your point? FWIW, I notice you completely ignored the point. Nice Alinsky-esque job there.

 

[Haides]

You do understand that libertarians are a favorite running joke in nearly all non-libertarian circles?

What's your point? FWIW, I notice you completely ignored the point. Nice Alinsky-esque job there.

Ignored what point? You didn't make one, you skirted my point and told me I should leave for having different ideas.

 

[gmhowell]

Fine, how about this point: there are places in the world that have little/no government. What's wrong with them? If they are so grand, why not move there? The US is not a libertarian nation. Never has been, never will be. From that perspective, this is not the country for you. That's why I suggest you may be happier elsewhere.

 

[HiballHiside]

How about we link mental health issues to stupid liberals like him. Why not? There is no logic or sense in what a55holes like that say anyway.

Stupid is not a Disease, it a disability.

 

[Haides]

Fine, how about this point: there are places in the world that have little/no government. What's wrong with them? If they are so grand, why not move there? The US is not a libertarian nation. Never has been, never will be. From that perspective, this is not the country for you. That's why I suggest you may be happier elsewhere.

So the US wasn't founded on principals of limited government at all? Well gee, apparently I've been reading our founding documents wrong all along then.

Somalia is a war-zone resulting from the power vacuum of collapsed authoritarianism leading to warring tribes, it has nothing do with libertarianism. There is NO country on this planet that is more libertarian than these United States of America were intended to be.

Telling me that I should leave this place because I don't want my money stolen from me or because I don't want my firearms taken from me is akin to blaming a woman for getting raped.