Montgomery Co. & Shipping Ammo

[MikeTF]

I just called Samco Global Arms, Inc to order a Swiss K-31 and some ammo. They lost my C&R that I mailed them in April. They allowed me to fax a copy (going against their website policy of needing a signed ink copy). Everything was going fine with the order until they asked me if I live in Montgomery County. I said 'yes' and they refused to ship the gun or the ammo. I shared that they have outdated and incorrect information. They requested that I send them 'proof' via fax or email. I'm currently searching this website for the link for Atlantic Guns vs. Montgomery County or other documents that I can share with Samco Global Arms.

 

[Adams74Chevy]

I just called Samco Global Arms, Inc to order a Swiss K-31 and some ammo. They lost my C&R that I mailed them in April. They allowed me to fax a copy (going against their website policy of needed a signed ink copy). Everything was going fine with the order until they asked me if I live in Montgomery County. I said 'yes' and they refused to ship the gun or the ammo. I shared that they have outdated and incorrect information. They requested that I send them 'proof' via fax or email. I'm currently searching this website for the link for Atlantic Guns vs. Montgomery County or other documents that I can share with Samco Global Arms.

Calling Novus

 

[MikeTF]

State Preemption Source

I just called Samco Global Arms, Inc to order a Swiss K-31 and some ammo. They lost my C&R that I mailed them in April. They allowed me to fax a copy (going against their website policy of needed a signed ink copy). Everything was going fine with the order until they asked me if I live in Montgomery County. I said 'yes' and they refused to ship the gun or the ammo. I shared that they have outdated and incorrect information. They requested that I send them 'proof' via fax or email. I'm currently searching this website for the link for Atlantic Guns vs. Montgomery County or other documents that I can share with Samco Global Arms.

'State Preemption

The State may preempt a local law in the following three ways: (1) express preemption; (2) implied preemption; and (3) preemption by conflict.

Express preemption is based on the authority of the General Assembly to reserve for itself "exclusive dominion over an entire field of legislative concern." (Ad + Soil, Inc. v. County Comm'rs, 307 Md. 307, 324 (1986)) Express preemption is not difficult to discern because the language generally is clear and unambiguous. An example of express preemption was recognized by the Court of Appeals in invalidating a Montgomery County ordinance regulating the sale of ammunition. (Montgomery County v. Atlantic Guns, Inc., 302 Md. 540 (1985)) The court ruled that the State had expressly preempted this area.'

Source: http://mlis.state.md.us/1998rs/misc/Legislative_Handbooks/Volume_VI/chapter5.htm

Does anyone have a better source?

 

[MikeTF]

Here's another document that I may be able to use:

http://mlis.state.md.us/2007RS/fnotes/bil_0007/hb0617.pdf

 

[MikeTF]

Vendors that do not ship ammunition and firearms to Montgomery County are not reading in detail ATF Publication 5300.5, revised September 2008, and titled, 'State Laws and Published Ordinances'.

Maryland's section is 19 pages long. There are two relevant references:

1. Page 202 MD 4-209 (a) State Preemption
2. Page 219 MC 57-11 Ammunition Law - Ruled Invalid [Publisher's Note]

I intend to send an email to Samco Global Arms, Inc. with these specific references indicating that they can ship me C&R guns and ammunition since we will be operating within the law and that other vendors are currently doing so legally.

Here are the specific references copied from the CD provided to C&R license holders by the BATFE:

1. Page 202 MD 4-209 (a) State Preemption

4-209. Regulation of weapons and ammunition.
(a) State preemption. Except as otherwise
provided in this section, the State preempts the
right of a county, municipal corporation, or special
taxing district to regulate the purchase, sale,
taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership,
possession, and transportation of:
(1) A handgun, rifle, or shotgun; and
(2) Ammunition for and components of a
handgun, rifle, or shotgun.
(b) Exceptions.
(1) A county, municipal corporation, or special
taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale,
transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation
of the items listed in subsection (a) of this
section:
(i) With respect to minors;
(ii) With respect to law enforcement officials
of the subdivision; and
(iii) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of
this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park,
church, school, public building, and other place
of public assembly.
(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special
taxing district may not prohibit the teaching of or
training in firearms safety, or other educational
or sporting use of the items listed in subsection
(a) of this section.
(c) Preexisting local laws. To the extent that
a local law does not create an inconsistency with
this section or expand existing regulatory control,
a county, municipal corporation, or special
taxing district may exercise its existing authority
to amend any local law that existed on or before
December 31, 1984.
(d) Discharge of firearms.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this
subsection, in accordance with law, a county,
municipal corporation, or special taxing district
may regulate the discharge of handguns, rifles,
and shotguns.
(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special
taxing district may not prohibit the discharge of
firearms at established ranges.
​

2. Page 218-19 MoCo Code 57-11 Ammunition Law - Ruled Invalid [Publisher's Note]

57-12. Sale of fixed ammunition.
(a) Legislative intent. The purpose of this
section is to provide support to state and local
law enforcement officials in their efforts against
crime and violence by placing controls on the
flow of dangerous ammunition, in addition to
those provided by federal law, and to encourage
compliance with the state police department's
program of voluntary firearm registration. It is not
the purpose of this section to place any undue or
unnecessary restrictions or burdens on law-abiding
citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession,
or use of firearms appropriate to the
purpose of hunting, trapshooting, target shooting,
personal protection, or any other lawful activity,
or to discourage or eliminate the private
ownership or use of firearms by law-abiding citizens
for lawful purposes. It is not the purpose of
this section to create, nor does it permit the creation
of, any separate system of county registration
of firearms or ammunition, or the levying of
any county fee in connection with any registration
of firearms or ammunition. It is specific-ally
not the intent of this section to serve as a revenue
generating measure.
(b) Registration of ammunition dealers.
Any ammunition dealer (as defined in 18 United
States Code, section 921 et seq.) who conducts
business in Montgomery County is required to
register with the Montgomery County department
of police by maintaining on file with that
department, at all times, a valid, current copy of
his federal ammunition dealer's license.
(c) Conditions for sale. No ammunition dealer
may sell fixed ammunition to any other person,
unless:
(1) The sale is made in person;
(2) The purchaser exhibits, at the time of sale,
a valid registration certificate or, in the case of a
nonresident, proof that the firearm is lawfully
possessed in the jurisdiction where the purchaser
resides;
(3) The fixed ammunition to be sold is of the
same caliber or gauge as the firearm described
in the registration certificate, or other proof in the
case of a nonresident; and
(4) The purchaser signs a receipt for the
ammunition which shall be maintained by the
licensed dealer for a period of one (1) year from
the date of sale.
(d) Exceptions. The provisions of this section
shall not apply to the sale of fixed ammunition:
(1) Which is suitable for use only in rifles or
shotguns generally available in commerce, or to
the sale of component parts of these types of
ammunition;
(2) To any person licensed to possess fixed
ammunition under an act of Congress and the
law of the jurisdiction where the person resides
or conducts business; or
(3) To any law enforcement officer of federal,
state, local or any other governmental entity, if
the officer has in his possession a statement
from the head of his agency stating that the fixed
ammunition is to be used in the officer's official
duties.
(e) Penalties. Any ammunition dealer who
sells fixed ammunition in violation of the provisions
of this section shall be guilty of a class C
violation, pursuant to section 1-19 of the Montgomery
County Code, punishable only by a civil
penalty in the amount of fifteen dollars ($15.00).
(f) Exception for incorporated municipalities.
This section shall not be effective in any
incorporated municipality which by law has authority
to enact a law on the same subject. If any
such incorporated municipality adopts this section
and requests the county to enforce the
adopted provisions thereof within its corporate
limits, the county may thereafter administer and
enforce the same within the incorporated municipality.
The county executive is authorized to enter
into agreements with incorporated municipalities
to enforce and administer the provisions so
adopted and to collect the administrative costs
of implementation from such municipalities.
[Publisher's note: This section was held to
be invalid by the Court of Appeals in Montgomery
County, Maryland, et al. v. Atlantic Gunds,
Inc., et al., 302 Md. 540, 489 A.2d 1114 (1985),
and interpreted in Washington Suburban Sanitary
Commission v. Elgin, 53 Md. App. 452, 454
A.2d 408 (1983).]​

 

[novus collectus]

Also, for the gun there is a second state preemption for regulated C&R preventing Mo Co from restricting the sale.

Public Safety article

5-104. Preemption by State. This subtitle supersedes
any restriction that a local jurisdiction
in the State imposes on a sale of a regulated
firearm, and the State preempts the right of any
local jurisdiction to regulate the sale of a regulated
firearm.

 

[novus collectus]

'State Preemption

The State may preempt a local law in the following three ways: (1) express preemption; (2) implied preemption; and (3) preemption by conflict.

Express preemption is based on the authority of the General Assembly to reserve for itself "exclusive dominion over an entire field of legislative concern." (Ad + Soil, Inc. v. County Comm'rs, 307 Md. 307, 324 (1986)) Express preemption is not difficult to discern because the language generally is clear and unambiguous. An example of express preemption was recognized by the Court of Appeals in invalidating a Montgomery County ordinance regulating the sale of ammunition. (Montgomery County v. Atlantic Guns, Inc., 302 Md. 540 (1985)) The court ruled that the State had expressly preempted this area.'

Source: http://mlis.state.md.us/1998rs/misc/Legislative_Handbooks/Volume_VI/chapter5.htm

Does anyone have a better source?

Heeeyyy, thanks for finding this.

 

[MikeTF]

Also, for the gun there is a second state preemption for regulated C&R preventing Mo Co from restricting the sale.

Thanks Novus!

 

[Sthomas229]

Sportsmansguide ships me ammo all the time in Silver Spring, to my work address. I 'm waiting on a case of 9mm as I type, it was shipped yesterday. They have shipped 7.62, .223 .22 all large quantity orders.

 

[swinokur]

Sportsmansguide ships me ammo all the time in Silver Spring, to my work address. I 'm waiting on a case of 9mm as I type, it was shipped yesterday. They have shipped 7.62, .223 .22 all large quantity orders.

Just yesterday I received ammo from Ammunition To Go (.40 S & W Federal Premium HST) JHP ammo to my doorstep in Bethesda. I think I would shop somewhere else if these vendors don't stay current on the law. I have received shipments from Cabelas and Streichers as well no problem. All came via UPS ground.

Thank God for preemption laws. If the uber liberals in MoCo had their way, Peapod grocery home delivery might be illegal

Stu

 

[Meditator]

It's good that we can get ammo shipped to MG co. again. Remember, it was also regular people crying wolf, and it started snowballing all over the Internet after that.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

I get ammo all the time from Wideners and Aim. I am on about my 10th shipment. Only think keeping me from ordering more is my wife tapping her foot everytime a heavy brown box is found on the doorstep.

 

[4MDGunRights]

Is there a reason why 00 buckshot can't be shipped to a Montgomery County address?

 

[Meditator]

There should not be any.

 

[novus collectus]

Is there a reason why 00 buckshot can't be shipped to a Montgomery County address?

There is no reason why any ammo cannot be shipped to Mo Co and definitely none for shotgun ammo.

 

[swinokur]

Is there a reason why 00 buckshot can't be shipped to a Montgomery County address?

I am in Bethesda and I get shipments of Federal LE 00 buckshot and slugs all the time from Ammo to Go, Cabelas and other vendors. Never had a problem. My only complaint is UPS leaves the darn box on my doorstep where anyone could help themselves to it. Oh well. Better than no delivery at all.

Stu

 

[erwos]

Just talked to SG, and they confirmed that they have no problem whatsoever shipping to MoCo. Considering the complete lack of 9mm at Wal-Mart these days, I think I'm going to take advantage.

 

[Angry Bill]

Nice thread guys and thank you very much. I like many other vendors have been operating on internet rumor. A recent order from a customer in MoCo prompted me to research this closer when in the past, I dismissed them outright. - Bill Anger

 

[DZ]

Thanks for not dismissing us Bill! We are people too (even though our neighbors may not be)!

 

[Silence]

I've seen elsewhere on this forum, after the fact, that Palmetto State Armory ships to Montgomery County? I just ordered some 9mm from them and had it sent outside of the county. It would have been more convenient to have it shipped home in Mo. Co.