Moco dumping the .40

[Blackstar65]

ok, the point was there were issues which Glock fixed. But this has nothing to do with the current problems

Correct.

 

[Blackstar65]

It always seemed silly to me how county PD's select their service pistols. How can Howard, Montgomery, PG, and Anne Arundel each come to a different conclusion that gun X is best for their department? Seems like a lot of wasted effort. How much time, money and effort are wasted testing a gun when the same results can found from hundreds of police departments across the country?

How much do you know about the process used to select duty firearms? Our needs are different. Some of our requirements are different. Budgets are vastly different. Staffing is different. Its easier to change direction in smaller departments sometimes. Geography also affects selection. Along with performance during evaluation and a bit of personal preference. Oh an manufacture location (Beretta/PGPD) (H&K/Louden County PD), (MSP STATE TEAM/Fulton Armory). The process is more involved them you think.

Now I would not mind have a annual or bi-annual state firearms manufacture day where the major players bring their wears to be shot an evaluated by perspective departments. Currently we have to set up our own demo days.

 

[swinokur]

I know nothing of this but I would guess manufacturer incentives also affect vendor selection. Some manufactures might offer more favorable pricing and incentives than others.

Sometimes it's not just the actual gun.

 

[Blackstar65]

I know nothing of this but I would guess manufacturer incentives also affect vendor selection. Some manufactures might offer more favorable pricing and incentives than others.

Sometimes it's not just the actual gun.

I missed that one. That can be a really big factor. Glock was giving departments $200 per pistol to switch to Glock. A Glock 17 or G22 with night sights is somewhere near 400 to 450. So you can refit your department for half the cost. That is hard to pass up from a budgetary stand point.

 

[swinokur]

I'm sure cost is the major consideration in any big capital outlay.

Especially in larger Departments. like Mo Co.

First words out of upper managements mouths:

"What's it going to cost?"

Rearming a large Dept is a major fiscal concern for management.

 

[pbharvey]

How much do you know about the process used to select duty firearms? Our needs are different. Some of our requirements are different. Budgets are vastly different. Staffing is different. Its easier to change direction in smaller departments sometimes. Geography also affects selection. Along with performance during evaluation and a bit of personal preference. Oh an manufacture location (Beretta/PGPD) (H&K/Louden County PD), (MSP STATE TEAM/Fulton Armory). The process is more involved them you think.

Now I would not mind have a annual or bi-annual state firearms manufacture day where the major players bring their wears to be shot an evaluated by perspective departments. Currently we have to set up our own demo days.

I know zero about it, hence my ignorance.
I don't understand a regional difference in contingent counties.
The FBI seems to think that a G19 works as well in Hawaii as it does in Alaska.

 

[swinokur]

One small consderation might be the location of the factory or nearest manufacturing depot. While most of the major manufacturers are located in the east, it might be a consideration for some depts located on the other side of the country.

shipping and travel costs for training might be a consideration.

just musing.

 

[hogarth]

Just heard about this switch a couple of days ago from a MoCo officer.

His G22 is well over ten years old and is essentially now two-tone.

Issues stemmed around broken rails AND worn down firing pin safeties (one resulted in an AD at the range/training center......while holstered in a level 3 retention holster! With witnesses!). Inspections revealed about 5% had the broken rails and close to 50% had FPS not up to spec. Glock admitted the the .40 and .357 Sig are harder on their guns, reducing frame life. So they are switching to G17, 19, and 26. I believe Gen 4. And I believe the Gold Dot G2 will be the duty round. Tru Glo NS will be standard.

 

[Blackstar65]

Just heard about this switch a couple of days ago from a MoCo officer.

His G22 is well over ten years old and is essentially now two-tone.

Issues stemmed around broken rails AND worn down firing pin safeties (one resulted in an AD at the range/training center......while holstered in a level 3 retention holster! With witnesses!). Inspections revealed about 5% had the broken rails and close to 50% had FPS not up to spec. Glock admitted the the .40 and .357 Sig are harder on their guns, reducing frame life. So they are switching to G17, 19, and 26. I believe Gen 4. And I believe the Gold Dot G2 will be the duty round. Tru Glo NS will be standard.

Loose lips sink ships.

 

[TheBert]

I missed that one. That can be a really big factor. Glock was giving departments $200 per pistol to switch to Glock. A Glock 17 or G22 with night sights is somewhere near 400 to 450. So you can refit your department for half the cost. That is hard to pass up from a budgetary stand point.

So its a money thing and not a performance thing? Why don't the various law enforcement organizations use the same handgun that the Army selects?

 

[TheBert]

Loose lips sink ships.

You are telling me that the MoCo PD is too cheap to replace their weapons on a 5 year schedule rather than a 10 to 15 year or more schedule? Everything wears out, uniforms, flashlights, shoes, cars, and firearms. All should be replaced on a regular basis.

 

[zoostation]

Just heard about this switch a couple of days ago from a MoCo officer.

His G22 is well over ten years old and is essentially now two-tone.

Issues stemmed around broken rails AND worn down firing pin safeties (one resulted in an AD at the range/training center......while holstered in a level 3 retention holster! With witnesses!). Inspections revealed about 5% had the broken rails and close to 50% had FPS not up to spec. Glock admitted the the .40 and .357 Sig are harder on their guns, reducing frame life. So they are switching to G17, 19, and 26. I believe Gen 4. And I believe the Gold Dot G2 will be the duty round. Tru Glo NS will be standard.

If your friend's info is accurate that's kind of disturbing. Especially on police guns, many of which see little use beyond one or two hundred rounds a year to qualify. Hopefully they are working with Glock to identify the issue if there is one.

Any gun manufacturer engineer will tell you how brutal the .40 is on gun designs. There's a reason why even before 9mm became the latest fad round that you would often see a new gun released in 9mm only first. But that's no excuse.

 

[zoostation]

I know nothing of this but I would guess manufacturer incentives also affect vendor selection. Some manufactures might offer more favorable pricing and incentives than others.

Sometimes it's not just the actual gun.

Some do. Glock has always made their guns very affordable to departments, which is one of the reasons they probably own over half the LE pistol market in the US.

Once police pistols hit around 7-10 years they start to become more cost efficient to replace than maintain. When you add up the cost of replacing night sights and mag springs, plus maintaining other assorted parts that are wearing down, the amount of man hours to do it, and the liability of older guns with parts that may fail, it simply becomes cheaper to just trade them out.

 

[Schipperke]

Rockville police were issued SigSauer 226. Not sure about now. Back when I noted what cops carried, it was interesting that MoCo, Rockville, MSP and MoCo Park Police all seemed to carry different pistols. I assumed Rockville had the most money.

 

[lawdog89]

It seems like all duty guns break at some point. We had Beretta Centurions in 9mm. The locking blocks started breaking. Then we switched to the Beretta Brigadier in 9mm. Then we adopted the Glock 9mm. Then we switched to the Glock .40. Now we've come full circle. Wtf.

 

[lawdog89]

It's true most of our service guns only see a couple of hundred rounds a year for qualifications. That doesn't seem like a high round count even after 10 or so years.

 

[hogarth]

You are telling me that the MoCo PD is too cheap to replace their weapons on a 5 year schedule rather than a 10 to 15 year or more schedule? Everything wears out, uniforms, flashlights, shoes, cars, and firearms. All should be replaced on a regular basis.

I've always felt like MoCo PD was pretty progressive in terms officer training, their patrol rifle program, etc., especially when compared to other area departments. I guess in this case, not so much (?).

 

[joppaj]

So its a money thing and not a performance thing? Why don't the various law enforcement organizations use the same handgun that the Army selects?

Different specs amongst other things. The M9 had to be good with ball ammo, but JHPs are used by most police.

 

[zoostation]

It seems like all duty guns break at some point. We had Beretta Centurions in 9mm. The locking blocks started breaking. Then we switched to the Beretta Brigadier in 9mm. Then we adopted the Glock 9mm. Then we switched to the Glock .40. Now we've come full circle. Wtf.

LOL, AA County bought the .40 96's when they first came out with them. That was a brief and unhappy relationship. To this day twenty years later they are still in Sigs.

 

[zoostation]

It's true most of our service guns only see a couple of hundred rounds a year for qualifications. That doesn't seem like a high round count even after 10 or so years.

The curious thing would be to see which 5% (if that's accurate) are the ones with problems. Random guns or high round count guns or guns conforming to a particular serial number range. Like I said, if this is an issue (not that police scuttlebutt complaining about something is ever wrong ) it is not normal and hopefully the armorers are on the phone with the manufacturer to nail down the problem. I've seen frame and slide stress problems across a host of brands but it's usually heavily used QRT guns in .40 or especially .357S.