Maryland: County Might Seek State Law, Issue Permits to Carry

[BUFF7MM]

because what the big 3 want, the big 3 usually get. MD is controlled by 2 counties and Baltimore City.

I'm all for sticking together to get shall issue, but your statement pretty much sums it up, Garrett, Allegany, Washington, and Frederick counties total population in July 2008 was 473,142, Baltimore city alone in July 2008 had 636,919 people.

 

[hairba111]

The sitting sheriff will probably be voted out. Jim Woods, who is running against him, is also pro gun. I've met him and he's got my vote.

 

[Mr H]

question. how could a county enact anything like this when state law prohibits it? 4-209 I believe

As I read it, the "county delegation" was being encouraged to introduce legislation in the GenAssy to allow the county to set their own rules.

It is NOT (again, as I understand it) a "county law" to allow local issue.

 

[vector03]

I'm surprised no one has used smoking as a comparison. HoCo was non smoking before Balto City. Once Balto City went non smoking, the rest of the state followed.

This needs to be handled at the state level.

 

[hvymax]

Might be an intentional monkeywrench.

 

[tckbite]

Another Article Today...

So really if i read this right, nothing will change execpt that if passed the Sheriff will tell you "NO WAY" instead of the State Police!

That's a big help! NOT!!!

**Washington County Sheriff Douglas W. Mullendore has said he supports the idea of issuing handgun permits at the local level, but does not think that change alone would result in more approvals.**

******************************************************
http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=254308&format=html


Maryland

Advocates of localized handgun permitting see it as a step

Activists see Md. as a ‘may issue’ state rather than a ‘shall issue’ one

By HEATHER KEELS
October 6, 2010
heather.keels@herald-mail.com

Advocates of localized handgun permitting said Wednesday that they view it as a step closer to more permissive right-to-carry practices in Maryland.

Shifting permitting from the state level to the county level would not change the state’s requirement for applicants to show “good and substantial reason” to carry a handgun, but it could allow for more-permissive interpretations of that statute, Frederick County Sheriff Charles A. “Chuck” Jenkins said Wednesday.

“What I view as reasonable and necessary may differ from what the Maryland State Police may view,” Jenkins said. “I may see a little something different here and say, ‘I believe this is a reasonable request.’”

Jenkins has joined Frederick County Commissioner Blaine Young in calling for state legislation authorizing the Frederick County Sheriff to issue handgun carrying permits, and the Washington County Commissioners agreed Tuesday they were interested in following suit.

Currently, all applications for permits to carry handguns in Maryland must go through the Maryland State Police licensing division in Pikesville, Md., near Baltimore, Maryland State Police spokeswoman Elena Russo said.

To be approved for a permit, an applicant must pass a background check and demonstrate a “good and substantial reason” for carrying a gun, such as threats against the applicant’s life or a job that requires transporting money, Russo said.

The application asks for proof of employment for profession-related permits and documented evidence of recent threats, robberies or assaults for personal protection permits.

Because of the discretionary nature of these requirements, second-amendment activists consider Maryland a “may issue” state, as opposed to “shall issue” states where laws require issuance of handgun permits to anyone not disqualified by criteria such as a criminal record, Young said.

“I think it should be a ‘shall’ state, not a ‘may’ state, but unfortunately, due to the situation we live in with the state of Maryland, I had to be realistic and try to propose something that I think would pass, basically, under the political philosophies of the state, and that is letting the sheriff have that responsibility,” said Young, who is a member of the National Rifle Association and Monocacy Pistol Club.

Young said other states, including Pennsylvania, already issue handgun permits at the county sheriff level.

Washington County Sheriff Douglas W. Mullendore has said he supports the idea of issuing handgun permits at the local level, but does not think that change alone would result in more approvals.

Young and Jenkins also said issuing handgun permits at the county sheriff level would result in better turnaround time and make the process less intimidating to potential applicants.

The average application processing time now is about 90 days, Jenkins said.

Young described the application process as “onerous,” particularly for someone who is experiencing an immediate situation such as being stalked or threatened.

“By the time you fill out the application and submit it and get a response back ... who knows what could happen,” he said.

Russo said the Maryland State Police in 2009 processed 4,274 handgun permit applications, 23 of which were original applications and the rest of which were applications for renewal.

That year, 173 of the applications were disapproved and the rest were approved, she said.

Figures for Washington County specifically were not available, Russo said.

“I don’t think the percentage of denials is exceedingly high, but I think the public has convinced themselves it’s such a little chance of getting a permit outside of those parameters (of occupational risk or documented threats), they don’t ask for it,” Jenkins said.

Young agreed.

“It’s just so challenging, people don’t even bother, because of the application and because of the time frame,” he said.

The Maryland law that prohibits carrying or transporting a gun without a permit — criminal law section 4-203 — does not apply to law enforcement officials, members of the armed forces or correctional officers, while on active assignment. It also allows exceptions for several situations including transporting an unloaded, holstered gun to or from the place of purchase, repair shop, sport shooting event, hunting and other destinations.

Maryland law also includes provisions that prohibit possession of a firearm by anyone who has been convicted of certain crimes or is a fugitive from justice, a habitual drunkard or drug user, or the subject of a protective order, among other categories.

Young said those restrictions are appropriate, but, like other right-to-carry advocates, he sees further discretionary power in issuing permits as a violation of the second amendment.

“I would like to see Maryland ultimately be a ‘shall’ state, but I believe this is one step closer, in terms of being able to exercise your constitutional rights,” he said of his proposed legislation.

Young said Washington County was the first county he had heard of that had expressed an interest in pursuing similar legislation, and said it might help the idea take hold in Annapolis.

“The rest of Maryland does not usually think like the rural parts of Maryland (so) I’d say it’s an uphill battle, but you’ve got to start that battle somewhere,” he said.

 

[rambling_one]

Story Carried By Keep and Bear Arms

http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=254193&format=html

County might seek state law to issue permits to carry guns

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/news/nl/disp.asp?d=10/7/2010

 

[hole punch]

tckbite, welcome and thanks for posting!

Apparently you haven't ever been in Hagerstown.

lol guess it just depends what part of town youre in, and what time of night.

...I just don't want anyone from Washington or Frederick County to read this post and think we are ungrateful for their intentions...

of course not. this thread pretty much laid it all out for me. when i first read the article it seemed like a good idea, but now that i've read the arguments here I can understand why it could be detrimental to the cause as a whole.

PA is a shall-issue state. PA has pre-emption laws. PA sheriffs act as State agents in issuing permits.

Since the MSP licensing unit has always played the "we're awfully busy" card, having county sheriffs do the paperwork may not be a bad idea....AFTER we win Woollard.

my thoughts exactly.

I think I'm just going to set back, read, and learn... I feel some education coming on. I'm all good with most laws, but, the CCW thing is a bit over my head, only becuase I have no direct relation to the issue and I have no reason to carry a gun at all times. I'll be standing by.

yeah same here. it seems i've got a lot of learning to do

 

[mrjam2jab]

“What I view as reasonable and necessary may differ from what the Maryland State Police may view,” Jenkins said. “I may see a little something different here and say, ‘I believe this is a reasonable request.’”

And that right there is why "reasonable justification" should be eliminated. Not just from a possible difference of opinion between a sheriff and MDSP...but even among the "players" of the team that handles the permits in MDSP. Your could be handle by officer #1 and get denied but that same application handled by officer #2 get approved.

 

[Abacab]

It WILL mean the end of preemption in MD, because what the big 3 want, the big 3 usually get.

MD is controlled by 2 counties and Baltimore City. If you removed them from MD, MD would be a blood red Republican state and anti-gun laws would be a thing of the past.

If we go poking around breaking down our hard fought preemption victory, everybody in the state will suffer, even those in Washington County will find themselves fending off local ordinances against so called assault weapons and ammunition bans, ammo taxes etc.

Because once PG, Moco and Baltimore City find out that they can make up their own gun laws, the entire state is doomed.

Once we win the Woollard case, the state will have to change its ways with regards to either open carry or the issuance of permits. THEN I won't might MSP passing along the authority to local sheriffs fro the issuance of permits.



It absolutely is. It is designed to divide gun owners between the "haves" and "have nots"....Look at this discussion for proof. It's a brilliant antigun concept and it's unfortunate that so many are too near sighted to see the damage it will cause.

I've suggested the creation of a liberal super state by kicking out MoCo and PG county and merging them with Loudon and Fairfax counties (with Arlington). While they're at it, they can take DC with them (except for a street or two) so I don't have to hear about their lack of voting 'rights' anymore. Unfortunately that leaves Baltimore City but there might be enough votes to offset in the remaining state of Maryland. At that point Maryland would have to join West Virginia/Delaware/PA to keep the number of states the same. West Virginia is the best choice since it's in step with Western Maryland and such. West Virginia is a 'fake' civil war state anyway!

The new superstate can be "Potomacstan" or something.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Until a federal court mandates "shall-issue" for self defense, there is no reason to change the current law to allow counties to issue. It's a divide and conquer tactic.

We get shall-issue via court ruling, and further contempt motions, and see how MDSP deals with it, then we should talk. Then and only then.

 

[IWLAFART]

I live in Berkeley Co, WV and drive thru Washington Co, MD on the way to PA.
Now I have to store my firearm in WV prior to entering MD and reload in PA. It is dangerous to do that on the shoulder of I-81

 

[Jay]

Also, look at the confusion and awkwardness in PA/Philly. PA allows carrying, but Philly restricts it. Dumb in my opinion. I pay state taxes and should be able to carry in the whole state, not portins of it. Also, just because you cross a county line, doesn't mean the threat will stop like a dog with a collar and underground fence.

Wait, Philly restricts carrying? How is this possible with when the state allows for carry? Are you talking about OC or CC?

Is a FL non-res permit holder allowed to carry in Philly, according to what you just said?

Because on the PA carry flyer, it says permit holders with a valid PA LTCF or license from any reciprocal state are allowed to carry in Philly.

 

[MDFF2008]

Wait, Philly restricts carrying? How is this possible with when the state allows for carry? Are you talking about OC or CC?

Is a FL non-res permit holder allowed to carry in Philly, according to what you just said?

Because on the PA carry flyer, it says permit holders with a valid PA LTCF or license from any reciprocal state are allowed to carry in Philly.

Philadelphia is a city of the 1st class, so under the PA UFA you do need a permit to Open or Concealed carry.

Philadelphia has enacted restrictions and modified the permitting process in ways that are illegal, but as you know, it takes someone to challenge the law.

Philadelphia is kind of like Chicago now. They can't ban guns (or carrying guns) but they can make life miserable for those who do.

 

[MDFF2008]

I live in Berkeley Co, WV and drive thru Washington Co, MD on the way to PA.
Now I have to store my firearm in WV prior to entering MD and reload in PA. It is dangerous to do that on the shoulder of I-81

I think you'll be ok if you wait to load up until after you get into PA. Don't get yourself killed on I-81.

 

[Jay]

Philadelphia is a city of the 1st class, so under the PA UFA you do need a permit to Open or Concealed carry.

Philadelphia has enacted restrictions and modified the permitting process in ways that are illegal, but as you know, it takes someone to challenge the law.

Philadelphia is kind of like Chicago now. They can't ban guns (or carrying guns) but they can make life miserable for those who do.

How about for those that travel to Philly and carry while there? I've carried there once and didn't have any trouble.

 

[swinokur]

Wait, Philly restricts carrying? How is this possible with when the state allows for carry? Are you talking about OC or CC?

Is a FL non-res permit holder allowed to carry in Philly, according to what you just said?

Because on the PA carry flyer, it says permit holders with a valid PA LTCF or license from any reciprocal state are allowed to carry in Philly.

To OC in Philly, you need a valid PA LTCF or a permit from a state that PA recognizes. The PA firearms law makes an exception on OC for "cities of the first class" which means a city with a population of 1,000,000 or more, of which Philly is the only one. So they require a permit to OC. Be advised if you do OC, be prepared to be hassled by PPD. They were just given a directive to check OC'ers for a permit. Probably not constitutional, but until they get challenged they're gonna do it.

 

[Jay]

Ah, okay, I see. So CCWing with a valid permit is still legal and still possible to being checked, but will draw less attention by PPD.

 

[swinokur]

you got it. i cc when i go to Filthadelphia. i don't need the hassle

 

[MDFF2008]

[/B]
How about for those that travel to Philly and carry while there? I've carried there once and didn't have any trouble.

Conceal it, and conceal it well and you'll be fine. Keep your eyes open for no-gun signs on buildings as well.