Man Up Mondays !!

[j_h_smith]

I'm not talking about trying to convert the legislators, I'm talking about the citizenry. The democrat who is a gun owner. They are out there, many of them. We don't need to go to war with them. We could come to terms for a common ground. I don't care if they bleed blue blood, but if they would be willing to help fight the legislature for the common goal, we would be much stronger. I think many of them have drank the cool aid long enough. I know many union guys who are avid hunters. Get them into the fight and we have an insider in the fight. Imagine if we would put the Republican vs Democrat differences aside only to fight together for common goal?

How many citizens know of the gun laws in this state? Regardless of party affiliation, probably less than 3%. We can get the word out to the R citizens, but because we have a them vs us mentality, we will never reach the democrat that would be interested in their gun rights. As a group we need to start thinking about working with whomever we can to get our point across. It's the old adage, My enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The gun owning Democrat is how we beat the legislature.

 

[EL1227]

DINOs failed to do that ...

I'm not talking about trying to convert the legislators, I'm talking about the citizenry. The democrat who is a gun owner. They are out there, many of them. We don't need to go to war with them. We could come to terms for a common ground. I don't care if they bleed blue blood, but if they would be willing to help fight the legislature for the common goal, we would be much stronger. I think many of them have drank the cool aid long enough. I know many union guys who are avid hunters. Get them into the fight and we have an insider in the fight. Imagine if we would put the Republican vs Democrat differences aside only to fight together for common goal?

How many citizens know of the gun laws in this state? Regardless of party affiliation, probably less than 3%. We can get the word out to the R citizens, but because we have a them vs us mentality, we will never reach the democrat that would be interested in their gun rights. As a group we need to start thinking about working with whomever we can to get our point across. It's the old adage, My enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The gun owning Democrat is how we beat the legislature.

Okay, then I'll 'qualify' my DemoRAT title to DemocRAT Politician so as NOT to offend the Democrat *little d" voters who just happened to be gun owners but vote as a block with unions and identity politics groups. Their gun rights are IGNORED by the DemocRAT Politicians who see them as a mathematically malleable minority who will remain in the Democrat party regardless.

For three election cycles straight, DINOs have switched their party affiliation from 'R' to 'D' in an effort to 'primary' the DemocRAT Politicians with very little success. If there were THAT many Democrat gun-owning voters to make a difference, wouldn't they do the same ? DemocRAT Politicians here in the PRofMD look at the voter registration rolls and say 'meh' ... we've got the numbers on our side. So, ask yourself WHY ???

I see Man-Up Mondays and other such efforts to discredit DemocRAT Politicians as having much more impact on Democrat gun-owners than trying to sway them by 'make nice' methods. And if those efforts also fail, it's because we gave into the ever moving 'line in the sand' by backing down in favor of bipartisanship. If education were enough, we would have won years ago. Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A.

In 2013 we mustered 4,000 plus in Nap'Town on 2A Tuesday in an attempt to stop FSA 2013, and yet here we are again this year trying to slow the incremental usurpation of 2A under the DemocRAT Politician conglomeration of gun-grabbing bills I would call 'FSA 2017'. It's not education that's needed, it's numbers on voter registration rolls, so tell the gun-owning Democrat voters ...

Or a crude version with stronger sentiment ...

 

[Gryphon]

Thanks Ed as always you rock!

 

[j_h_smith]

Okay, then I'll 'qualify' my DemoRAT title to DemocRAT Politician so as NOT to offend the Democrat *little d" voters who just happened to be gun owners but vote as a block with unions and identity politics groups. Their gun rights are IGNORED by the DemocRAT Politicians who see them as a mathematically malleable minority who will remain in the Democrat party regardless.

For three election cycles straight, DINOs have switched their party affiliation from 'R' to 'D' in an effort to 'primary' the DemocRAT Politicians with very little success. If there were THAT many Democrat gun-owning voters to make a difference, wouldn't they do the same ? DemocRAT Politicians here in the PRofMD look at the voter registration rolls and say 'meh' ... we've got the numbers on our side. So, ask yourself WHY ???

I see Man-Up Mondays and other such efforts to discredit DemocRAT Politicians as having much more impact on Democrat gun-owners than trying to sway them by 'make nice' methods. And if those efforts also fail, it's because we gave into the ever moving 'line in the sand' by backing down in favor of bipartisanship. If education were enough, we would have won years ago. Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A.

In 2013 we mustered 4,000 plus in Nap'Town on 2A Tuesday in an attempt to stop FSA 2013, and yet here we are again this year trying to slow the incremental usurpation of 2A under the DemocRAT Politician conglomeration of gun-grabbing bills I would call 'FSA 2017'. It's not education that's needed, it's numbers on voter registration rolls, so tell the gun-owning Democrat voters ...

Or a crude version with stronger sentiment ...

Well, you have to admit, we are the minority in this state and as such we are fighting an uphill battle. Again, I'm not asking the dem voter to change parties, but if they could put pressure on the legislature to ease up on the anti 2a stance, we could have a chance. There's no way we are going to make this a Red state, not in 100 years. But we can try to see if we can get some help from the gun loving dem voters to further our cause.

Sure, you can discount this measure, but I see no recourse for our side. Sure, we can keep battling, but if we would have dem voters on our side in regard to the 2A, we would be in a much better position. I'm not talking about "playing nice", I'm talking about getting the demographic to realize that we are in this together. The gun crowd isn't exclusively the Republican citizens, so why are we the only group fighting for those rights. We need a bipartisan attack to stop the assault on our rights.

Have we ever tried to reach that portion of the dem voters? I think not. Will they listen to us, who knows? But without trying to expand our numbers, we are just spinning our wheels. Instead of trying to prevent unlawful bills from becoming laws each year, wouldn't it be nice if we could be on the offense for a change?

Imagine what the dem legislators would do if their constituents would demand better 2A laws. They would have to start listening.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

You have reached the democrat voter. I am one.

 

[Omega21]

EL1227 - you Sir are exactly why I've invested my pro-2A money and time at the federal level rather than at the state level and why I've stayed away from MSI. Comments like "Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A. " demonstrate an utterly ignorant approach. Not sure where you learned your tactics, but openly and vitriolically attacking and alienating those who would be your allies i.e. pro-2A democrats, is no way to win a war. The fact that you are an executive member with MSI suggests they have chosen their leadership poorly - a fact underscored by MSI's impotence in the face of anti-constitutional legislation in Maryland over the past few years. An organization that creates artificial divisions within the gun community serves to undermine our unity and resolve.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

EL1227 - you Sir are exactly why I've invested my pro-2A money and time at the federal level rather than at the state level and why I've stayed away from MSI. Comments like "Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A. " demonstrate an utterly ignorant approach. Not sure where you learned your tactics, but openly and vitriolically attacking and alienating those who would be your allies i.e. pro-2A democrats, is no way to win a war. The fact that you are an executive member with MSI suggests they have chosen their leadership poorly - a fact underscored by MSI's impotence in the face of anti-constitutional legislation in Maryland over the past few years. An organization that creates artificial divisions within the gun community serves to undermine our unity and resolve.

So, what is your plan. Inaction? Inaction is what got us in this position.

 

[BeoBill]

EL1227 - you Sir are exactly why I've invested my pro-2A money and time at the federal level rather than at the state level and why I've stayed away from MSI. Comments like "Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A. " demonstrate an utterly ignorant approach. Not sure where you learned your tactics, but openly and vitriolically attacking and alienating those who would be your allies i.e. pro-2A democrats, is no way to win a war. The fact that you are an executive member with MSI suggests they have chosen their leadership poorly - a fact underscored by MSI's impotence in the face of anti-constitutional legislation in Maryland over the past few years. An organization that creates artificial divisions within the gun community serves to undermine our unity and resolve.

Well, the divisions are real. So far each year we convince a handful of people to take our side by making nice. We reach many, many more who never realized that our position indicates a disease of overreach rather than an isolated symptom by making noise.

 

[Omega21]

So, what is your plan. Inaction? Inaction is what got us in this position.

Look at the first line. My activities are to support national efforts. I don't support inaction. "Hope" is not a course of action.

 

[Biggfoot44]

When I prioritize my 2A efforts and $$, I am more afraid of Annapolis than of Washington.

It's not like outreach hasn't been on our agenda. If you have * specific* outreach stratagies in mind we're not doing yet, let us know, plenty of us would jump in.

When interacting with politicriters 1 on 1 , I lead off with registration status, geographic location, and Union affiliation and can get 30sec of listening instead of instant blowoff. I always make the point that whatever else is their primary issue, it is not incompatable with supporting the Bill of Rights in general, and 2A in particular.

All that said, we need to proceed on ALL fronts, and in their face is one of them.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

Look at the first line. My activities are to support national efforts. I don't support inaction. "Hope" is not a course of action.

The only thing I can do in the national effort is just send money. I think having "skin in the game" locally is what keeps me going. I think standing in the rain confronting legislators show a degree of seriousness. Sending checks to places with big buildings and lots of windows....not so much.

 

[Gryphon]

I send money to national orgs. I vote nationally. I send money to local orgs. I vote locally. I stand in the cold and rain with signs. I engage local legislators respectfully. I testify in Annapolis. However, I don't worry about offending politicians that work hard to oppress my fundamental rights, or their Democratic constituency that does little if anything to stave off their infringement of my right to self-defense.

I also try not making a habit of openly criticizing the strategies of others who participate in the fight for our rights in one way or another, BUT I haven't found trying to recruit 2A friendly Democrats to be very productive. With few exceptions they keep electing the same unified party line representatives that infringe on our individual liberties, and that are hell bent on making us victims to criminals and their increasingly tyrannical form of government.

When I see Democrats elect a single 2A friendly representative to the MGA, and that individual stands up and openly support my right to self-defense, then I'll reconsider the merits of chasing and recruiting the illusive 2A supporting Democrat. In the meantime any that want to join our cause are more than welcome.

 

[HRDWRK]

EL1227 - you Sir are exactly why I've invested my pro-2A money and time at the federal level rather than at the state level and why I've stayed away from MSI. Comments like "Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A. " demonstrate an utterly ignorant approach. Not sure where you learned your tactics, but openly and vitriolically attacking and alienating those who would be your allies i.e. pro-2A democrats, is no way to win a war. The fact that you are an executive member with MSI suggests they have chosen their leadership poorly - a fact underscored by MSI's impotence in the face of anti-constitutional legislation in Maryland over the past few years. An organization that creates artificial divisions within the gun community serves to undermine our unity and resolve.

Omega21,
I have spoken to many "pro-2A democrats," while holding a sign that says Democrats hate hunters!
I'm sure many others who have been at any 2a event in Annapolis or other events that have held those signs can attest, the response I have had is " that sign is wrong" " my grandfather and husband are hunters and I feel like they should have a gun" " However they don't need" or however that's not what that bill is about"!

I call that "FUDDS" as many others do!

They don't give a crap about anything because it's about thee not Me!

In my opinion, giving to the national level is not the direction that George Soros and the rest of the 1st world order believes or donates!

The state level is were the fight is and will be! Keeping Frosh, Miller, Busch, Brown contained is the fight!
Jmtcw!

Come out and hit the bricks in Annapolis and see it for yourself.

 

[Omega21]

The only thing I can do in the national effort is just send money. I think having "skin in the game" locally is what keeps me going. I think standing in the rain confronting legislators show a degree of seriousness. Sending checks to places with big buildings and lots of windows....not so much.

My doctorate is in public health so I testify on the hill (mostly in committees) on behalf of the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) regarding public health implications of firearms ownership and about some of that "gun violence is an epidemic" nonsense. When Dan Webster and Jon Vernik are publishing books about "informing policy with evidence and analysis" someone has to present an informed, unbiased, scientific counter-perspective.
But I also send checks "to places with big buildings and lots of windows..."

Omega21,
Come out and hit the bricks in Annapolis and see it for yourself.

OK, I'll PM you directly tonight to coordinate coming to a Man Up Monday session.

 

[HRDWRK]

My doctorate is in public health so I testify on the hill (mostly in committees) on behalf of the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) regarding public health implications of firearms ownership and about some of that "gun violence is an epidemic" nonsense. When Dan Webster and Jon Vernik are publishing books about "informing policy with evidence and analysis" someone has to present an informed, unbiased, scientific counter-perspective.
But I also send checks "to places with big buildings and lots of windows..."



OK, I'll PM you directly tonight to coordinate coming to a Man Up Monday session.

Case in point!

http://www.chicksontheright.com/howard-dean-there-is-no-room-for-pro-lifers-in-the-democrat-party/

 

[zenMonkey]

Gryphon nailed it in post 352.

Getting voters who vote for democrats to embrace the second amendment, who will then still vote for democrats is pointless. They may accept the 2A, but will still vote for people who trash our rights.

 

[BeoBill]

Gryphon nailed it in post 352.

Getting voters who vote for democrats to embrace the second amendment, who will then still vote for democrats is pointless. They may accept the 2A, but will still vote for people who trash our rights.

And that's exactly how we got the bunch in the MGA now. AND our Congresscritters.

 

[j_h_smith]

I'm going to leave it with this statement. We will not change this state without pressure from some form of democrat voter. You can say what you want, but we aren't going to change a democrat legislator's mind. We can't get our governor to stand for what we want, how are we going to change the minds and more importantly, the vote of the democrat legislators? The only way they will listen is if members of their own party start demanding change.

 

[Schipperke]

And that's exactly how we got the bunch in the MGA now. AND our Congresscritters.

Did you see the Fracking vote? When it rains it pours..

 

[EL1227]

EL1227 - you Sir are exactly why I've invested my pro-2A money and time at the federal level rather than at the state level and why I've stayed away from MSI. Comments like "Time to tell the Democrat gun-owners to join the REAL fight for our God-given rights and abandon their false loyalty to a party that long ago wrote them off. If gun-owning Democrat voters feel marginalized by our tactics, they are empathizing with their DemocRAT Politician Masters and not 2A. " demonstrate an utterly ignorant approach. Not sure where you learned your tactics, but openly and vitriolically attacking and alienating those who would be your allies i.e. pro-2A democrats, is no way to win a war. The fact that you are an executive member with MSI suggests they have chosen their leadership poorly - a fact underscored by MSI's impotence in the face of anti-constitutional legislation in Maryland over the past few years. An organization that creates artificial divisions within the gun community serves to undermine our unity and resolve.

The divisions that exist aren't mine or our doing.

They've been fomented and fostered by a DemocRAT machine that uses identity politics and social issues to divide and conquer ... 2A is just a casualty of a long history of liberal/progressive politics in the PRofMD. All of our problems mirror those in California and we'll soon suffer the same fate if we don't wake people up,

You have your ideas on how to do that, I (and others) have ours.