Looking for entry level "long range" rifle.

[dist1646]

There's this on GB right now. Location is California, Md. Not afilliated with seller. Built by WTC. Not a bad price.

Item 991117374

 

[4g64loser]

Thank you for the response, 4g64.

I'm an opinionated guy when it comes.to precision rifle work. I try to save others some of the pain and money I've wasted if I can.

 

[4g64loser]

The gentleman who shot this group an hour ago fired a precision rifle for the first time at 9 am today. His first group was about three inches. Calculated his data and he made a first round hit at 500.

Tikka t3 tac a1 in 6.5 creed, nightforce glass. Tested a couple different factory loads and sigs 140 gr marksman performed the best. ES under 20 for this string, 28 for the prior string. There is nothing wrong with the factory tikka rifles and I expect that OP would be happy with them. With aftermarket support for the platform increasing during recent years, he can have his choice of stocks, chassis, etc.

My advocacy for a custom rifle is based on someone who knows this game is for them. It also looks forward to when the weapon system will require maintenance. The ability of the end user/operator to change barrels at home is a cost and time savings. As shipping firearms has become even more difficult, not to mention costly, I look even harder at it. Some of the better outfits hold their tolerances tight enough to allow shouldered prefit barrels to be used, even with interchangeable bolt heads. For the guy who has a 100-300yd range near him and wants to shoot a lot, he can run a 223 barrel and a 378 bolt head in his Zermatt (no they don't pay me, I paid full price for mine) and shoot more on the same dollar, especially in the off.season. if he wants to go to a long range, swap bolt heads and barrels, rezero the week before the trip, and enjoy 6.5 creedmoor performance. All this in the same stock or chassis, with the same trigger, running the same.glass, that he is using every couple weeks normally.

Apologies if the below turns out looking like garbage. I'm trying to do this from a phone and as those who know me can attest, I am not smarter than the tool I am trying to operate. OP asked about a template for a custom build. This won't be under two but it will be close.

Zermatt Origin action 900

ZERMATT ARMS/BIGHORN ARMS ORIGIN SHORT ACTION | Northland Shooters Supply

Northland Shooters Supply (NSS) offers the Zermatt Arms Origin short action along with the TL3, SR3, and Origin actions from Zermatt Arms/Bighorn Arms.

northlandshooterssupply.com

Criterion stainless match shouldered prefit barrel 395
https://northlandshooterssupply.com/prefit-barrels/criterion-shouldered-prefit-barrels/

Kinetic research group bravo chassis 370
https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/bravo-chassis/

Kinetic research group spigot mount (all but necessary for rigid bipod attachment, take my word for it) 133
https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/spigot/

Triggers are highly personal to what you like but plan on 120-250 for a decent one and they can get to twice that pretty quick. I have no issues with the old timney 510 but a lot of people are hard for Triggertech these days. I don't care for rifle basix but some do. Attend a match or class and ask to check out people's gear. Most are glad to show off their toys.

Bipods are highly personal too. I run modded Harris rigs fitted with american defense lever mounts and hawk hill rifles talons instead of the OEM rubber feet. A LOT of people favor Atlas and their products are qualify.

I'm a huge fan of the American Rifle Company M10 rings and have stopped buying anything else but there are solid offerings from a lot of companies. I like the simplicity and construction that ARC offers. One bolt attachment to the rail, one bolt to hold the optic. They hold up just fine on my friends 375CT.

 

[doggyjacket]

View attachment 419685

The gentleman who shot this group an hour ago fired a precision rifle for the first time at 9 am today. His first group was about three inches. Calculated his data and he made a first round hit at 500.

Tikka t3 tac a1 in 6.5 creed, nightforce glass. Tested a couple different factory loads and sigs 140 gr marksman performed the best. ES under 20 for this string, 28 for the prior string. There is nothing wrong with the factory tikka rifles and I expect that OP would be happy with them. With aftermarket support for the platform increasing during recent years, he can have his choice of stocks, chassis, etc.

My advocacy for a custom rifle is based on someone who knows this game is for them. It also looks forward to when the weapon system will require maintenance. The ability of the end user/operator to change barrels at home is a cost and time savings. As shipping firearms has become even more difficult, not to mention costly, I look even harder at it. Some of the better outfits hold their tolerances tight enough to allow shouldered prefit barrels to be used, even with interchangeable bolt heads. For the guy who has a 100-300yd range near him and wants to shoot a lot, he can run a 223 barrel and a 378 bolt head in his Zermatt (no they don't pay me, I paid full price for mine) and shoot more on the same dollar, especially in the off.season. if he wants to go to a long range, swap bolt heads and barrels, rezero the week before the trip, and enjoy 6.5 creedmoor performance. All this in the same stock or chassis, with the same trigger, running the same.glass, that he is using every couple weeks normally.

Apologies if the below turns out looking like garbage. I'm trying to do this from a phone and as those who know me can attest, I am not smarter than the tool I am trying to operate. OP asked about a template for a custom build. This won't be under two but it will be close.

Zermatt Origin action 900

ZERMATT ARMS/BIGHORN ARMS ORIGIN SHORT ACTION | Northland Shooters Supply

Northland Shooters Supply (NSS) offers the Zermatt Arms Origin short action along with the TL3, SR3, and Origin actions from Zermatt Arms/Bighorn Arms.

northlandshooterssupply.com

Criterion stainless match shouldered prefit barrel 395
https://northlandshooterssupply.com/prefit-barrels/criterion-shouldered-prefit-barrels/

Kinetic research group bravo chassis 370
https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/bravo-chassis/

Kinetic research group spigot mount (all but necessary for rigid bipod attachment, take my word for it) 133
https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/spigot/

Triggers are highly personal to what you like but plan on 120-250 for a decent one and they can get to twice that pretty quick. I have no issues with the old timney 510 but a lot of people are hard for Triggertech these days. I don't care for rifle basix but some do. Attend a match or class and ask to check out people's gear. Most are glad to show off their toys.

Bipods are highly personal too. I run modded Harris rigs fitted with american defense lever mounts and hawk hill rifles talons instead of the OEM rubber feet. A LOT of people favor Atlas and their products are qualify.

I'm a huge fan of the American Rifle Company M10 rings and have stopped buying anything else but there are solid offerings from a lot of companies. I like the simplicity and construction that ARC offers. One bolt attachment to the rail, one bolt to hold the optic. They hold up just fine on my friends 375CT.

Thanks a lot for that. Putting aside the swappable bolt head / barrel which is both fascinating and tempting, how would you say that custom compares to the T3x UPR for $1300 I posted above in terms of value for performance.

 

[4g64loser]

Thanks a lot for that. Putting aside the swappable bolt head / barrel which is both fascinating and tempting, how would you say that custom compares to the T3x UPR for $1300 I posted above in terms of value for performance.

There is nothing wrong with the tikkas. I own and shoot two of them, one full custom the other stock barreled action just in an MPA chassis. I posted some drop/drift/mover data for them a page or so ago. I can post some load test targets when I get home tonight if that helps. As far as a value comparison, apples and oranges. Will the tikka shoot? Yes. I am comfortable saying that it will fulfill it's accuracy guarantee and probably do better (most do). In the short term, the tikka will do all you need for less initial expenditure. After a gunsmith barrel replacement or two, probably a wash. And that's assuming you like the stock, etc, as is.

I have not used a UPR stock. Personally, I'd just buy a Varmint in your choice of chambering and drop it in the stock/chassis of your choice. KRG bravo or the B&C medalist stocks are both reasonable options. If the stock is like what I saw in some a7 sakos, no thanks. I'd want to see one, hands on, before I comment more. The upr barreled action appears to be the same as a CTR long barrel (they come in 20 and 24). I do have experience with the Sporter (kinda biathlon-ish looking) stock and it's as close as you can get to the 595/695 Master Sporters of yesteryear. Eurooptic is usually the only source. The tac a1 is nice but you are paying for a chassis and it takes CTR mags (modded TRG mags). They aren't cheap and if you goof and forget them, the odds of someone having a spare at a range day or match are a lot lower than someone having a spare AICS pattern mag.

 

[doggyjacket]

Personally, I'd just buy a Varmint in your choice of chambering and drop it in the stock/chassis of your choice. KRG bravo or the B&C medalist stocks are both reasonable options.

That sounds very interesting as well.

 

[4g64loser]

That sounds very interesting as well.

I'm not a fan of the CTR mags.

I am an admitted KRG fanboy so I suggest the Bravo of course. I have loved my whiskey three for years. Don't forget to budget for the spigot mount.

Good news is easy peasy AICS pattern mag function. No custom inlet like you'd have to do to drop bottom metal (most) stocks. I've done it before but it's a PITA even with access to a milling machine. I did the inlet for the TL3 I posted previously and for a couple of my 700s. If you don't have machine access, it's a LONG road with a dremel and I don't suggest it. If you bugger it up you basically trashed the stock. Hence why the Bravos sell so well (and are the de facto option on "production division" PRS rigs). Priced right, lots of functionality.

 

[doggyjacket]

I keep going back and forth on which out-of-the-box rifle I am most interested in because I like or dislike different parts about all of them. Given that, a custom probably makes the most sense since I can just part what I like and I think your parts list hits all the high point. I am going to sit down and look at it in more detail but I think I'm going to lean custom now.

Which of these parts has to go through an FFL? I assume at least one of them is considered the gun? I am assuming it's the action which seems ridiculous.

 

[4g64loser]

I keep going back and forth on which out-of-the-box rifle I am most interested in because I like or dislike different parts about all of them. Given that, a custom probably makes the most sense since I can just part what I like and I think your parts list hits all the high point. I am going to sit down and look at it in more detail but I think I'm going to lean custom now.

Which of these parts has to go through an FFL? I assume at least one of them is considered the gun? I am assuming it's the action which seems ridiculous.

ONLY the action. That's it. Everything else goes to your house.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

Lots of good rifle actions to build upon. I liken this to stereo equipment. The rule of thumb is 50% of your stereo setup goes towards speakers. With a good rifle and scope combination...plan of 50% of your investment is in the glass. You don't buy a Weatherby Mark V and put a Tasco on it. The best rifle...action properly bedded...great barrel...great trigger...can all be negated by poor scope selection.

Buy once...cry once.

 

[El_flasko]

I’ve owned a 700 and enjoyed it, heard great things about Tikka too but yet to shoot one personally. I’m a big fan of the Bergara Now for sure. Bought one in 308 and the action is smooth as butter. Only had it to 200 so far before a surgery, can’t wait to stretch it out and see what it/I can do. Good luck with your decision OP

 

[Russ D]

I’ve got three 700’s and they will all shoot, but they aren’t on the level of my 595 master Sporter Tikka. The .223 700 SPS shoots most loads well, but the .308 700 SPS took a lot of tweaking hand loads to get something that routinely hammers a 3” plate at 400 yards(the longest distance I routinely shoot). I picked these two up for a very good price and would have dumped them if I couldn’t get them to shoot. The only thing left of the original rifles are the receivers and the barrels. My third 700 is a 1970’s production 30/06 that shoots incredibly small groups for a Sporter barrel budget model. The action is slick and it’s very obvious that it’s a much better rifle than the newer models. The action is slicker and just feels “better”. I will most likely have both SPS’ rebarreled when the time comes but I won’t invest in extra action work.
If I were buying today I would go the custom action route or the Tikka without hesitation. Neither will have any limiting factors regardless of what you eventually decide you want to use them for and the ease of changing barrels and calibers makes it a no brainer. If you want to be a better long range shooter it’s also a no brainer to have a .223(or similar) caliber precision rifle for the reduced cost of ammo and minimized shooter fatigue. I’ve been training my son and he can shoot 100-200 .223’s in a session with no problem. If it were anything much bigger he’d be lucky to shoot well for more than 40 rounds and I’d have trouble affording more than that. There’s no substitute for trigger time.

 

[4g64loser]

I’ve got three 700’s and they will all shoot, but they aren’t on the level of my 595 master Sporter Tikka. The .223 700 SPS shoots most loads well, but the .308 700 SPS took a lot of tweaking hand loads to get something that routinely hammers a 3” plate at 400 yards(the longest distance I routinely shoot). I picked these two up for a very good price and would have dumped them if I couldn’t get them to shoot. The only thing left of the original rifles are the receivers and the barrels. My third 700 is a 1970’s production 30/06 that shoots incredibly small groups for a Sporter barrel budget model. The action is slick and it’s very obvious that it’s a much better rifle than the newer models. The action is slicker and just feels “better”. I will most likely have both SPS’ rebarreled when the time comes but I won’t invest in extra action work.
If I were buying today I would go the custom action route or the Tikka without hesitation. Neither will have any limiting factors regardless of what you eventually decide you want to use them for and the ease of changing barrels and calibers makes it a no brainer. If you want to be a better long range shooter it’s also a no brainer to have a .223(or similar) caliber precision rifle for the reduced cost of ammo and minimized shooter fatigue. I’ve been training my son and he can shoot 100-200 .223’s in a session with no problem. If it were anything much bigger he’d be lucky to shoot well for more than 40 rounds and I’d have trouble affording more than that. There’s no substitute for trigger time.

He does pretty well with your 22 precision trainer!

Don't think he liked the brake on my Warlord.

 

[Magnumite]

Good post (#92), Russ D.

 

[doggyjacket]

Well, it seems very fun and interesting and he's very persuasive so I'm doing a custom build as outlined by 4g64 above. This place is dangerous for your wallet!~

 

[4g64loser]

Well, it seems very fun and interesting and he's very persuasive so I'm doing a custom build as outlined by 4g64 above. This place is dangerous for your wallet!~

Doc T says I am a bad influence.

I prefer the term "enabler".

 

[Bountied]

He does pretty well with your 22 precision trainer!

Don't think he liked the brake on my Warlord.

Have you ever tried a harmonic compensator? Instead of doing load development you tune your rifle to the round. I have one on my T3 TAC A1. You pick a load then you tune the comp until you get holes in holes, then that is your setting for that cartridge. It works and saves time on load development. There doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about them but I have two and they make a big difference.

 

[Speed3]

Have you ever tried a harmonic compensator? Instead of doing load development you tune your rifle to the round. I have one on my T3 TAC A1. You pick a load then you tune the comp until you get holes in holes, then that is your setting for that cartridge. It works and saves time on load development. There doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about them but I have two and they make a big difference.

They work, I have one on my 6x47L also. Like you said if your have a great powder charge with super low ES/SD but can't seem to tighten groups with setting depth.....using the turner can help close it up. Its wild to watch the group change shape by turning the tuner.

 

[Bountied]

They work, I have one on my 6x47L also. Like you said if your have a great powder charge with super low ES/SD but can't seem to tighten groups with setting depth.....using the turner can help close it up. Its wild to watch the group change shape by turning the tuner.

I'll have to post the pic I took with my one rifle. It went from over a 1" spread at 100yds to 2 in the same hole then back up then down. I then went to shoot a .5 MOA 5 shot group at 200yds. They definitely work. If you can get your SD low you just need to tune it to that load.

 

[trickg]

Have you ever tried a harmonic compensator? Instead of doing load development you tune your rifle to the round. I have one on my T3 TAC A1. You pick a load then you tune the comp until you get holes in holes, then that is your setting for that cartridge. It works and saves time on load development. There doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about them but I have two and they make a big difference.

Erik Cortina uses and sells them. He seems to do well enough behind the rifle.

Shop | Cortina Precision

Cortina Precision Shop. Tuners, Tuner Brakes, Reloading Dies.

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