Long range rifle help

[inkd]

I can not say enough good things about Ed Shell.
I pm'd him a question about a rifle I was looking at a few years ago and the amount of time he took to answer my questions just blew me away.
His class is at the top of my bucket list.

 

[Bolts Rock]

I received a karma from "some guy"...it was a B&C M40 stock that sits on my .308 now. If you ever talk to "some guy", tell him thanks again!

I had a beer with "some guy" last night. He says you're welcome and is happy the stock found a good home.

 

[rtse4me]

I would look into a Tikka T3x CTR in either 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 if you can find one. Good aftermarket support and great out of box accuracy for about $1000.

Here is a good Sniper's Hide video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCZbUuHJb6U

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

I think I'll be sending him a PM today just to verify my two choices.

 

[redsandman6]

there is a rem 700 in the classified section

https://www.mdshooters.com/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=30393

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

I saw that one before. I'm really leaning toward a savage model 10 FCP-SR. I went and held one again today. Man its tempting. I wonder if there will be any good deals anytime soon. Like specials or something.

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

Thanks for keeping me in mind though. I appreciate it. I kinda wanna start with a clean slate though. As nice as that gun looks, I wanna make one look that good myself. For the learning experience really.

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hVDu1EARBc

Both of these should be helpful in getting started
good luck

Great minds think alike. I watched those two exact videos right after I posted this thread. They are pretty informative. I was hoping to find other follow up videos to them but I didn't see anything. I was searching from my phone though. Maybe tomorrow I'll try the desktop to see what I can find.

 

[Pinecone]

It is more shooter than rifle/caliber. Assuming the rifle is not total crap. Heck, I have made hit out around 760 yards with a repro Mosin sniper.

A couple people have mentioned, Remington 700 or Savage 10 are good starting points. And has also been said, if you are going to eventually going to go whole hog, it is cheaper to either buy a top line rifle, or have one custom built.

Rem 700 has the larger aftermarket base. Savage is not far behind. There are also some other fine rifles, but they are not as well supported if you want to make changes later.

My long range rifle started as a Remington 700 PS-1 in .308. Which was bull barrel, synthetic stock (HS Precision), and detachable box magazine. It shot fine. I have since changed the trigger (Timney), stock (Manners T-4A with mini chassis), had a tactical bolt knob installed, had the barrel threaded. If I had the barrel replaced and the action trued, I could have had a rifle built on a custom action for the same or less money.

Or just buj a Sako TRG.

Dan Newberry at Bang Steel will rent a rifle for his course. The rifle is an out of the box Savage 10 in .308, with a Super Sniper 10x. A friend shot this rifle out to 1000 yards without any issues with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain.

Here is the link to the Bang Steel equipment recommendation page - http://www.bangsteel.com/equipment-needs....html

As for caliber, 6.5 has benefits. .308 works fine, and ammo is easier to find. .300 Win mag is good if you want to reach out even further, but match ammo will be harder to find.


Dan also took a Walmart purchased Savage hunting rifle in .270, with a Bushnell 4x scope. He shot his course of fire out to 1020 yards with this combo.

http://www.bangsteel.com/philosophy....html

And don't forget optics. The rule of thumb is your optics should cost as much or more than the rifle. Good optics are really nice, especially when you start reached out to longer ranges. My preference is to make sure the reticle and knobs match units. Either mil/mil or MOA/MOA. I like Vortex for the price/performance and great warranty service.

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

Great info! Thanks alot! I'll check out that website.

 

[4g64loser]

I am a Tikka voter here. I've owned and shot to distance rifles made by many manufacturers. My first true "long range" .30 cal (all my early precision guns were varmint rigs of smaller bore diameter, though they can be pushed to surprising distances) was a savage 10FP. It shot .75MOA and was a solid rifle. I have no complaints with performance. I did, however, detest firing it as the bolt was sloppy and felt like a monkey built it. Take this opinion with a grain of salt, as my basis for comparison is not "standard" rifles. My 700s have all, with one exception, been non-Remington barrels. Also, with one exception, they are old receivers and do not have the nasty, gritty, feel of the newer bead blasted ones (one dates from 1966, per Remington's historian, and has who-knows-how-many rounds on it as it was rebarreled multiple times before I got my hands on it. If you are happy with the Savage feel, grab it as they are solid performers that can be easily rebarreled in the average home shop with only a few specialized tools.

As I was unhappy with the "feel" of the savage, I sold mine and bought a Tikka T3 Tactical in .308. Very solid rifle. bolt is very smooth, and only 70deg rotation to unlock compared to Rem/Sav/Rug/Win which are, by and large, 90deg (Ruger RPR excepted). This bolt rotation issue is a personal preference as I own a couple of 60deg guns and favor them highly. When wearing gloves or in very cold weather, it is much easier to manipulate a bolt with a lesser degree of unlock rotation. The camming effort is, absent gunsmith (or qualified operator) tuning, generally higher but your hand comes nowhere near the scope and I find them much faster to operate when follow up shots are required. My T3 served me for two years (about 3000rounds) and then I just decided that, as one of my other long range rigs wears a Krieger barrel and performs very well, the T3 deserved something finer as well. A Krieger it was and I have fired my life's best .30 cal group with it (five rounds from bipod and rear bag .277" spread center to center). Consider that if you plan to upgrade the rifle, as most of us do, the T3 parts are a bit less common than savage and much less common than remington but tend to be of high quality. Several companies offer stocks, chassis systems, and other parts for the T3. Mine is in an XLR Element chassis and I cannot imagine putting it in anything else. The rig is ergonomic (for me) and, a big issue for me, has a folding stock that makes cleaning the bore MUCH easier (no messing with the comb, just flip the stock to the side, insert bore guide, and go to town).

You can spend a lot of money very fast in this sport. Test out a few rigs at the range and make lists of what you like and don't like about each you fire. Compile feature lists and go from there.

Not that I have a dog in the fight, but if you do go savage, there's a pretty good looking F T/R model in the classifieds last time i looked.

 

[BradMacc82]

A great addition for the Savage's is the bolt body from PTG. They can be found at Midway and such, fluted and non-fluted.

But the benefit of ordering directly from PTG is that you can have them go 'oversized' by varying increments to tighten up the play some between the receiver and bolt body. I forget what spec I ordered, but it did help take some of the slop out, w/out having to buff and polish the bolt body excessively to maintain good clearance.

 

[ashershapiro]

Is 6.5 Creedmoor hanging around?

I'd say yes. Its a hell of a round.

 

[4g64loser]

I would agree that the 6.5 creedmoor is here to stay as a factory cartridge. I would, however, caution a prospective buyer that the available brass for creed is NOT of the quality that is to be found for the .260 or 6.5x47L. If you cannot get lapua brass for your intended chambering, or readily form it from an offering in their catalog, think twice. I have spent way too much time measuring, weighing, trimming, flash hole uniforming (yes, i said uniforming, not just deburring), case neck turning, and many other time-killing case preparation steps to get brass that, when finally done, shoots almost as well as Lapua but doesn't last nearly as many firings (especially when max or over max loads are used).

Brad makes a great point about the availability of aftermarket parts for Savage and Rem rifles. While I admit it sounds snobbish on my part, I must ask why one would buy a rifle that will see the receiver itself significantly machined and all other components attached, including the bolt, replaced. Just start with a better rifle, if you want to shoot a factory gun, or with a "custom" receiver that will already have the desired machining/features you desire. It will save you time and hold significantly greater value should you decide to sell later.

 

[Speed3]

I would agree that the 6.5 creedmoor is here to stay as a factory cartridge. I would, however, caution a prospective buyer that the available brass for creed is NOT of the quality that is to be found for the .260 or 6.5x47L. If you cannot get lapua brass for your intended chambering, or readily form it from an offering in their catalog, think twice. I have spent way too much time measuring, weighing, trimming, flash hole uniforming (yes, i said uniforming, not just deburring), case neck turning, and many other time-killing case preparation steps to get brass that, when finally done, shoots almost as well as Lapua but doesn't last nearly as many firings (especially when max or over max loads are used).

Brad makes a great point about the availability of aftermarket parts for Savage and Rem rifles. While I admit it sounds snobbish on my part, I must ask why one would buy a rifle that will see the receiver itself significantly machined and all other components attached, including the bolt, replaced. Just start with a better rifle, if you want to shoot a factory gun, or with a "custom" receiver that will already have the desired machining/features you desire. It will save you time and hold significantly greater value should you decide to sell later.

100% agree with this, I WILL NOT buy another precision right that doesn't use lapua brass. Fighting 6.5CM brass isn't fun.

 

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

I take it you guys have missed Lapua announcing small-primer 6.5 Creedmoor brass? Not that Norma brass is far off, or 22-250 or 243 brass are hard to form.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Minuteman]

I know he's an IP here. What's the easiest way to get his recommendation? Pm, calling, or wait for a response to this thread. I don't want to drop big money right from the start. I'd like to find something that will allow me to get into longer distances, but that I can upgrade as I go to make it better.

If you are serious about getting into long range rifle, and sounds like you might be; I'd recommend you read every post by Ed Shell. Lots of other experts here too.

First things first. Keep your AR. Shoot smaller targets. Then consider a bolt gun in 6.5 Creedmore. At range, it has 25% less drop in elevation and 25% less wind drift than comparable .308. Which means its easier to shoot longer range with less deviation and it will be easier to track your own impacts because it recoils less. The Ruger American is generally considered a solid 1 MOA gun from the factory.

I always wondered about how much more I might get out of 6.5 over 308, this '25%' sounds very reasonable, and worth it.

Whatever you do, dont get a hunting rifle unless you change the barrel. Hunting rifle barrels are meant to be light weight and will start to sag as it heats up. Your POI will change as that happens.

Here I was thinking to recommend that new 'Predator' 6.5, or buy one myself but it's a hunting rifle. At $350, might still be worth it as a weekend warrior?

100% agree with this, I WILL NOT buy another precision right that doesn't use lapua brass. Fighting 6.5CM brass isn't fun.

This is as foreign to me as another language, but I get that it's pretty important.


--

Are there any long range rifles/calibers that you do not have to reload for, or overly customize? Also any that come as a bullpup or easily converted? More unicorn features: reasonably priced factory precision ammo and good barrel life?

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

So I've decided I'm going with the Savage FCP-SR in 308. I sent a message to E. She'll and he responded. So many thanks to him. I decided the savage because I probably won't be doing a whole lot of customizing right from the start. Sounds like the rifle will out shoot my capabilities most likely for a while. From what I've read all over the Internet with this particular model, most people are getting sub moa out of the box. Minuteman I'm definitely gonna get into long range shooting. My club has a 300 yards range to get me started and then I'll grow from there. I'm definitely gonna look into a class with E. Shell, and maybe also the course offered by NRA to LE for precision rifles. Especially if I can get my dept to pay for it. My other rifle should be sold Friday, so hopefully at the gun show in VA this weekend I can find that model for a good price. If not I guess I can always post something in the wanted to buy section and see if I can get a good price.

 

[Minuteman]

Awesome.

I wonder what Ed (or others) might think of this rifle: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/09/budget-350-mile-gun-ruger-american-predator-6-5cm/ Or even the Savage Axis II, also discussed in that article.

If these inexpensive 6.5 creedmors can do all that a .308 can do and be 25% better, with less recoil; what's not to love?

Any of these rifles are better than I can shoot them past 300, so why not?

How's factory precision ammo costs, between 308 and 6.5? I'll look.

 

[ClutchyMcClutcherson]

Maybe I'm wrong but the reason I decided to go with 308 over the creedmor is because I want the experience of learning to read environmental factors. The savage has a barrel that I can replace myself so if i decide to switch calibers I can do it myself. That ruger looks pretty nice but I think there is not as much aftermarket support. Again I'm new to this realm but those are my thoughts.