Loch Raven... Scary Newbies!

[mikec]

Alan, I think it was Cisco who screamed at one shooter after you left a few weeks back.

I am not sure but I think the staff store boxes of pigeons in the trap houses of fields 3 and 4. One of the LR guys was in one of those houses, orange cone on top of the house, and the shooter walks up and closes the action on his gun. I forget what words were exchanged but the LR staffer was not happy. Vince knew about it.

It is detailed in our safety rules and all new shooters to the club, like most ranges, must read and sign.

I do not remember signing any safety form the first time I shot there.

 

[roger8918]

As a more experienced shooter you had the responsibility to do so.

Actually, I remind my kids that it is their obligation.

 

[roger8918]

I would ask if you notified any staff members after correcting the unsafe behavior? That would have been extremely helpful if you had.

I did, or at least I thought he was an employee. He was working with a group of shooter at the skeet range. Also, being new to the range, I waited a minute for the regulars to say something before I stepped in. Nothing...

 

[circleshooter]

@ Roger8918 -

Thanks for the information. As I said, I can guarantee that this is going to addressed by the board and management.

 

[roger8918]

Thank circleshooter!

Don’t misunderstand my comments, I really enjoyed the range. I just wish safety was just a little more of a concern for the employees and that it was just a little bit cheaper for the 16 and under crowed. I could see myself latter in life sitting on that porch on a lazy Saturday afternoon and saying to my buddy sitting next to me "he shot over that one".

 

[PapiBarcelona]

Good points from everyone.

I can't speak for Loch Raven, or any "Metro Maryland" clubs that offer clay disciplines of any sort, but out in 'da boonies when yer shooting yer sporting clays, 5 stand, or whatever your flavor is, I've never really seen any hooligans as everyone who is there is experienced. I've found that most people who shoot sporting clays are already well versed in what's going on

As far as what I do, Sporting Clays would be practically impossible to have any sort of dedicated safety only people unless you put them on every station, and to have +15 people wearing orange shirts at every station everyday seems a bit unreasonable unless you want to refer to them as trappers instead.

The only other option for a half mile long sporting clay course is to have dudes rip and riding up and down it on 4 wheelers and gators, and that isn't going to happen either. The only time that happens is when they come out to restock the throwers with clays.

I think there is a big inexperience and misconception of how some areas of some shotgun sports really are, compared to an unsafe mass populated rifle range. Things like "Where are the RSOs?!?!" make me lol Obviously, some people haven't spent a lot of time in other areas.

While it's certainly the best idea to have safety people present, in a lot of clays situation it is just not practical

 

[t hood]

hello i went to hoover tactical gun and range in birmingham and that place is strict but indoor range

 

[HeatSeeker]

At the risk of me saying anything about Noobs, I am compelled to say what needs to be said. Times have changed. By and large, new shooters are no longer mentored by fathers or others with experience. Armed with their new purchase from Dicks or Walmart, many new shooters march off to the closest range with no experience and many times with no common sense. They are simply dangerous and are accidents waiting to happen. All clubs should (but few do) require every new or unknown shooter to complete a comprehensive saftey course for each discipline they choose to become involved with prior to being allowed to shoot and to demonstrate what they have learned. Above and beyond that, it is every shooter's responsibility to jump in with both feet and stop safety violations the moment they are spotted. This duty should be shared by everyone, not just someone who happens to be wearing an RSO badge. Violations should require no debate and no stupid comments about breaking the law. You follow the safety rules or you saddle up and hit the trail.

Again, times have changed. Different approaches must be used to assure the safety of all shooters. The number of safety violations (and not all committed by Noobs) are growing and are obvious. Get involved. The life you save might very well be your own.

I have to agree. I grew up with hunting and guns in the family and started learning firearm safety at a young age. I believe this helps take away a bit of the firearm fascination that many people that are new to it have. There are more people that are purchasing and handling firearms for the first time later in life without any mentoring. It is great to see more people enjoying the sport, but really would be nice if they had some prior knowledge of safe handling and etiquette.

 

[HeatSeeker]

Maybe we could start up a Firearms Mentoring program or FMP???

Kinda like Big Brothers for anyone that wants to start out owning and shooting firearms.

 

[Bikebreath]

Wait; According to Col. Cooper "All guns are always loaded". How could his have been empty?

I take the Colonel's words to heart. I hope he was wrong this time...guy loaded one, shot one. Hell...for all I know it might have been loaded. He was a douchebag.

 

[STeveZ]

Only if you want your cost per round to rise dramatically.

Hard to imagine LR's prices rising higher than they are.

 

[Maverick0313]

Headed down to Loch Raven yesterday so my son could shoot a little practice. Seems they let the newbeis run wild and free over there. I had to step in and say something to one of them at the wobble trap when they walked from station 1 to station 2 with a loaded gun. I'm all for getting new people to the range but there needs to be some sort of supervision when they show up without mentors.

Good for you for taking action....it's the only way they will learn.....

 

[Redcobra]

Maybe we could start up a Firearms Mentoring program or FMP???

Kinda like Big Brothers for anyone that wants to start out owning and shooting firearms.

I am always happy to mentor new shooters at Loch Raven if asked. Although I am not the greatest shot, I know the games and shotgun safety.
But, you have to ask. I am not going to jump into a situation other than to say "please keep your muzzle down range" unless someone wants help.

The one time I said something to someone (hunter types with pumps) about trap and only loading after the guy before you shot, I was basically told to mind my own business. These guys obviously knew it all, so I left the line.

 

[Redcobra]

Hard to imagine LR's prices rising higher than they are.

Do you really think $5/round is high. It's $3/round at the AGC (with no skeet or five stand) and I can assure you it's going up soon since the latest accounting has shown that the Association lost money on trap last year. And the AGC is run on a limited hour basis by volunteers.
LR is open to all 30 or so hours a week.
Birds cost roughly $.10 each (biodegradable orange white flyer), plus a waste factor of 25% (broken in the machine, thrown but not shot at, etc.) $8,000 trap machine going in soon as an old one broke and is not repairable, maintenance of the club grounds and the machines, pay for the employees (including benefits and taxes etc), Baltimore County entertainment tax/ round, etc. etc. It starts to add up.

As an aside, I heard that a group got miffed when the management chastised them about safety, and they then shot 5 or so rounds with several people and then left without paying. Nice, huh? Who ate that cost?

Some places are now charging by the target (Sioux Falls $0.25/target) so you pay for all birds thrown whether you shoot at them or not. So if you let the trap throw birds while you are closing your gun or picking up shells, it's on your nickle.


I personally think that a round of trap for less than a Starbucks Latte is a good deal.

 

[blackthorne]

Most folks don't see the big picture when it comes to the rising prices to shoot. They only see that targets cost about $.08 or $ 2.00 per round and assume that the club/range is making over 100% profit. Like Redcobra said, they don't see the rest of it. Capitol expense in the land, associated real estate taxes, insurance, electric, maintenance, cutting grass, snow removal, trap costs, theft, target breakage, etc. It all adds up. Clubs with all volunteer help can operate cheaper. You typically see this in the small Pa clubs, but they also have a very active volunteer membership and do other things to raise money for the club. But, if you have to pay for labor, operate in the high rent district, or don't require, push or give members an incentive to volunteer, prices will go up, period.

Though this topic strayed away from a saftey concern to pricing, I wanted to point out that either of these issues plague most clubs and I hope that no one thinks it's unique to Loch Raven. I have't shot there in years, but remember it to be quite safe, quite clean, well run and a pleasurable place to shoot. As to safety, I think it's important to repeat and to recommend a basic safety course and associated practical exercise for all new shooters just to assure that everyone is on the same page. You can post all the signage and rules until the cows come home, but few read it and few new shooters even understand it. Yes, it's another pain in the butt, but it by far offsets an accident. This should especially apply to clubs that rent guns, for they attract new and inexpewrienced shooters moreso than other clubs. Attacking the problem with a waiver is, of course, not the same and does not absolve the club from liability.

 

[HeatSeeker]

I am always happy to mentor new shooters at Loch Raven if asked. Although I am not the greatest shot, I know the games and shotgun safety.
But, you have to ask. I am not going to jump into a situation other than to say "please keep your muzzle down range" unless someone wants help.

The one time I said something to someone (hunter types with pumps) about trap and only loading after the guy before you shot, I was basically told to mind my own business. These guys obviously knew it all, so I left the line.

I can see this happening. Unfortunately the stereotype of many gun guys is true. They are know it all aholes. Sorry to even say this, but in my experience it is just true. I would not be surprised to see an obvious range safety violation and speak up only to be told to mind my own businesss. I think the best move is to report to a range officer if present. If not, I would speak up and if met with hostility then I would just leave the facility.

 

[English Springer]

I applaud your safety conscious attitude. This time of the year always brings some unskilled and unsafe shooters out of the woodwork. BRAVO!

 

[PJDiesel]

You ask where the "Chief Range Officer" is at the clubs and sporting clay farms I go to and you may get some odd looks.

Uh,...it's me.

In all seriousness, most people at our local club are constantly and consistently about safety. Except that is, for some of the guys that work (volunteer) there, it's not uncommon at all for someone to buzz out in from of the 5 stand field on the Gator with no warning, no horn,.....

Irritates the schit out of me, most times I shake my head and say "one of these mother efr's is gonna get shot someday", everyone seems to agree.

As far as patrons being unsafe, very very rare, very rare (up there anyway)

 

[roger8918]

Do you really think $5/round is high.

It is a little on the high side for kids………I have a 40 person youth team that I would love to bring down to LR a couple times a year. The club does have everything and it would be great to bring the kids down on a Saturday and have them shoot a couple rounds of trap, a round or two of Skeet and finish with a round of 5-stand.

Let say 30 of my 40 kids show up, so 30 kids shooting two rounds of trap. That’s 30 shooters each shooting 2 rounds (60 rounds x $5.00\round = $300)

Then let’s say 20 of them stay for Skeet and 5-Stand. 20 kids shooting a round of Skeet (20 x $5.00\round = $100)

Again 20 stay and shoot the 5-Stand. (20 x $6.00\round = $120)

That would be a very fun afternoon however it would cost me $520 and if we came twice I'm in for over $1000.

Before anyone asks why you don’t make the kids pay for their targets….here is the reason.

If I put this great afternoon together in an email and send it out to my team with the title “Come shoot an afternoon of Trap, Skeet and 5-Stand for FREE” …..I’ll get 30 kids show up. If I say “Come shoot an afternoon of Trap, Skeet and 5-Stand for $21.00” I’ll get 10, maybe. Heck, they can shoot an ATA competition with awards for >$20.

I want kids to have a positive experience with a firearm so I go out of my way to make it affordable for their parents. That’s why I have 40 kids on my team! Check it out www.masondixonclaybusters.com

Anyone have any ideas on how I can raise $1000?

 

[blackthorne]

Uh,...it's me.

In all seriousness, most people at our local club are constantly and consistently about safety. Except that is, for some of the guys that work (volunteer) there, it's not uncommon at all for someone to buzz out in from of the 5 stand field on the Gator with no warning, no horn,.....

Irritates the schit out of me, most times I shake my head and say "one of these mother efr's is gonna get shot someday", everyone seems to agree.

As far as patrons being unsafe, very very rare, very rare (up there anyway)

I feel your pain! LOL