Loch Raven... Scary Newbies!

[roger8918]

Headed down to Loch Raven yesterday so my son could shoot a little practice. Seems they let the newbeis run wild and free over there. I had to step in and say something to one of them at the wobble trap when they walked from station 1 to station 2 with a loaded gun. I'm all for getting new people to the range but there needs to be some sort of supervision when they show up without mentors.

 

[Redcobra]

Headed down to Loch Raven yesterday so my son could shoot a little practice. Seems they let the newbeis run wild and free over there. I had to step in and say something to one of them at the wobble trap when they walked from station 1 to station 2 with a loaded gun. I'm all for getting new people to the range but there needs to be some sort of supervision when they show up without mentors.

You did the right thing by saying something. Responsible members have to "help" the noobs.
In situations like LR where there are 8 or 9 fields what else can be done?

 

[mikec]

A couple of Thursdays ago, several of us went to do some wobble trap shooting. "Redcobra" had left and "mr h' and I were standing round chatting and we saw several things that if they had happened at Hap Baker or another rifle/pistol range, a RO would have been all over the fools. I commented to the one staffer and his response was "As long as what they did was not illegal, we can't do anything". So it seems that violating basic firearms rules aren't enough to get a talking to.

Remember, stupid behavior happens everywhere. Hopefully your words did some good.

 

[mikec]

You did the right thing by saying something. Responsible members have to "help" the noobs.
In situations like LR where there are 8 or 9 fields what else can be done?

NRA certified range officers????

 

[roger8918]

All that I saw were a few kids (18-25) running the place and none seemed to be paying much attention to a group that were clearly newbies. As Mike suggested, I think they need to have a RO on site. Should be mandatory on weekends.

I was talking to the gang at the 5-Stand and they said they have documented and reported many violations but not much is ever done.

 

[mikec]

Roger, hopefully the one guy from LR who frequents this forum will see this and mention it to the board.

Maybe we can schedule a time to meet and shoot there?

 

[blackthorne]

You did the right thing by saying something. Responsible members have to "help" the noobs.
In situations like LR where there are 8 or 9 fields what else can be done?

At the risk of me saying anything about Noobs, I am compelled to say what needs to be said. Times have changed. By and large, new shooters are no longer mentored by fathers or others with experience. Armed with their new purchase from Dicks or Walmart, many new shooters march off to the closest range with no experience and many times with no common sense. They are simply dangerous and are accidents waiting to happen. All clubs should (but few do) require every new or unknown shooter to complete a comprehensive saftey course for each discipline they choose to become involved with prior to being allowed to shoot and to demonstrate what they have learned. Above and beyond that, it is every shooter's responsibility to jump in with both feet and stop safety violations the moment they are spotted. This duty should be shared by everyone, not just someone who happens to be wearing an RSO badge. Violations should require no debate and no stupid comments about breaking the law. You follow the safety rules or you saddle up and hit the trail.

Again, times have changed. Different approaches must be used to assure the safety of all shooters. The number of safety violations (and not all committed by Noobs) are growing and are obvious. Get involved. The life you save might very well be your own.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

You ask where the "Chief Range Officer" is at the clubs and sporting clay farms I go to and you may get some odd looks.

 

[mikec]

You ask where the "Chief Range Officer" is at the clubs and sporting clay farms I go to and you may get some odd looks.

Does ATA or NSSA have a range officer program? Wait, trap and skeet are gentlemen's sports. Not like those evil ARs or handguns.

I meant to write about what I saw but things made me forget until I saw this thread.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

I don't know, do they?

I'm not apart of any of that, and I don't shoot anything of that. During registered shoots, and events there may be safety people anywhere because of the volume, but I doubt on practice days there are

 

[mikec]

Checking NSSA's site. They have info on instructors and referees. Can't find anything about ROs.

 

[roger8918]

Times have changed. By and large, new shooters are no longer mentored by fathers or others with experience. Armed with their new purchase from Dicks or Walmart, many new shooters march off to the closest range with no experience and many times with no common sense. They are simply dangerous and are accidents waiting to happen.

Blackthorne, you hit the nail on the head. Its great to see new people at the range but they need people to take the time to mentor them. If Loch Raven set something up I would even bring my kids down and we would all volunteer a couple of days as a RSOs/Mentors.

 

[roger8918]

One other thing that scared me was the fact that they rent guns and don't give the Newbies a shell pouch. The guy I spoke to was reaching down after every shot to pick a shell out of his box that was on the ground. To me this is like texting and driving. Muzzle control needs to be your #1 priory and that is difficult to do while your bending over to pick a shell out of a box.

I teach my kids that if they are on the line and accidentally drop a shell to leave it on the ground until they finish the round and have racked their gun.

 

[Bikebreath]

Holy crap, what time? I took my nephew and 85 yr. old parents there after lunch to show them the games and explain it. We sat on the porch and watched a guy on the trap line with an empty gun sweep us a few times. We were there from about 2-2:30.

 

[roger8918]

Holy crap, what time? I took my nephew and 85 yr. old parents there after lunch to show them the games and explain it. We sat on the porch and watched a guy on the trap line with an empty gun sweep us a few times. We were there from about 2-2:30.

Saturday 9/1/12 from 11am-1pm

 

[RobMoore]

We sat on the porch and watched a guy on the trap line with an empty gun sweep us a few times.

Wait; According to Col. Cooper "All guns are always loaded". How could his have been empty?

 

[Al's Snackbar]

Headed down to Loch Raven yesterday so my son could shoot a little practice. Seems they let the newbeis run wild and free over there. I had to step in and say something to one of them at the wobble trap when they walked from station 1 to station 2 with a loaded gun. I'm all for getting new people to the range but there needs to be some sort of supervision when they show up without mentors.

You were absolutely correct in your actions. With that said, don't take your son to a range that is fool of fools and have no RO's to police those fools.

 

[Redcobra]

NRA certified range officers????

Only if you want your cost per round to rise dramatically.

I know it is not an answer, but shotgun only ranges (no pistols, no rifles, etc) tend not to have RSOs. Also, there are no cease fires, etc.
Vince is the manager, and has two young guys to help him. The yumg guys primary job is loading the houses, although Cisco does watch shooters and often tells them what they did wrong.

I was there the other day, and two hunters were shooting trap "for practice." I had told them not to load their gun until it was their turn to shoot. They had BPS pumps and after every shot would rack the hell out of the gun, then bend over and pick up another shell. After suggesting they put shells for each 5 shots in their pocket, and them not doing it. I left after one round.
It's the time of year when the "hunters" get the gun out of the clsoet and head out to warm up for hunting season.
I don't know what the solution is.

 

[circleshooter]

Headed down to Loch Raven yesterday so my son could shoot a little practice. Seems they let the newbeis run wild and free over there. I had to step in and say something to one of them at the wobble trap when they walked from station 1 to station 2 with a loaded gun. I'm all for getting new people to the range but there needs to be some sort of supervision when they show up without mentors.

While I'm sorry that you had to witness unsafe behavior at Loch Raven, I'm pleased that you took the initiative to correct it. As a more experienced shooter you had the responsibility to do so. Actually, safety is everyone's responsibility - staff, members, and shooters alike. It is detailed in our safety rules and all new shooters to the club, like most ranges, must read and sign.

http://www.lochravenskeettrap.com/safety.php

I would ask if you notified any staff members after correcting the unsafe behavior? That would have been extremely helpful if you had.

I have to say that since opening in 1956 LRSTC has had, and has, an exemplary safety record. Staff and members really do take range safety pretty seriously. I've corrected infractions myself as I see them. Just about all the members there do as well.

However, nothing is ever perfect and I have forwarded the URL to this thread to all of Loch Raven's board members. I guarantee that this will be a topic at our next meeting in a couple of weeks.

 

[roger8918]

I don't know what the solution is.

Not that difficult and at has a very low cost. Educate all of the Trap Help and have them take the RSO course. Make sure they understand their obligations and empower them to make safety their number one priory. I was watching and it’s not like these guys have too much work to do to not make their presence known. Oh yea, buy them all neon green t-shirts that have “Range Safety Officer” printed on them in nice big letters.