Loch Raven... Scary Newbies!

[Redcobra]

It is a little on the high side for kids………I have a 40 person youth team that I would love to bring down to LR a couple times a year. The club does have everything and it would be great to bring the kids down on a Saturday and have them shoot a couple rounds of trap, a round or two of Skeet and finish with a round of 5-stand.

Let say 30 of my 40 kids show up, so 30 kids shooting two rounds of trap. That’s 30 shooters each shooting 2 rounds (60 rounds x $5.00\round = $300)

Then let’s say 20 of them stay for Skeet and 5-Stand. 20 kids shooting a round of Skeet (20 x $5.00\round = $100)

Again 20 stay and shoot the 5-Stand. (20 x $6.00\round = $120)

That would be a very fun afternoon however it would cost me $520 and if we came twice I'm in for over $1000.

Before anyone asks why you don’t make the kids pay for their targets….here is the reason.

If I put this great afternoon together in an email and send it out to my team with the title “Come shoot an afternoon of Trap, Skeet and 5-Stand for FREE” …..I’ll get 30 kids show up. If I say “Come shoot an afternoon of Trap, Skeet and 5-Stand for $21.00” I’ll get 10, maybe. Heck, they can shoot an ATA competition with awards for >$20.

I want kids to have a positive experience with a firearm so I go out of my way to make it affordable for their parents. That’s why I have 40 kids on my team! Check it out www.masondixonclaybusters.com

Anyone have any ideas on how I can raise $1000?

I do understand your dilemma, but you can’t expect the LR Club to subsidize your group, can you?
How about a bake sale? “Cookies for Clays.”

 

[circleshooter]

Snip...
Anyone have any ideas on how I can raise $1000?

Were you aware that Loch Raven is classified as a 501 (c)(3) charity? Ever make your case to the board of directors there? And that one of our mission statement goals is to "foster the enjoyment and perpetuation of the clay shooting sports"?

Who knows what might happen.

 

[roger8918]

I do understand your dilemma, but you can’t expect the LR Club to subsidize your group, can you?
How about a bake sale? “Cookies for Clays.”

LR is a non-profit so they should be looking for a good cause to support. Who better to support then the next generation of firearm owners? This ties directly back to the original topic of this thread...firearm safety!

Yeah a bake sale... great idea! I'll spend my time counting cookies instead of coach kids to shoot!

 

[rseymorejr]

When my son was in Boy Scouts they held Free carwashes (tips gladly acceped!) to raise money for summer camp, etc. They usually raised a pretty good bit of money this way.

 

[roger8918]

Were you aware that Loch Raven is classified as a 501 (c)(3) charity? Ever make your case to the board of directors there? And that one of our mission statement goals is to "foster the enjoyment and perpetuation of the clay shooting sports"?

Who knows what might happen.

If you can help me get an audience I will would be very grateful.

 

[roger8918]

When my son was in Boy Scouts they held Free carwashes (tips gladly acceped!) to raise money for summer camp, etc. They usually raised a pretty good bit of money this way.

Thanks and I understand where you are coming from however my operating budget was over $12,000 this year, so I fear that all my time would be spent washing cars, baking cookies, and selling pizzas, not coaching kids to shoot. I try to focus our fundraising efforts on individual donations, grants and business sponsors. When our season starts (Spring) I need to be able to focus on shooting...not fundraising.

 

[circleshooter]

Most folks don't see the big picture when it comes to the rising prices to shoot. They only see that targets cost about $.08 or $ 2.00 per round and assume that the club/range is making over 100% profit. Like Redcobra said, they don't see the rest of it. Capitol expense in the land, associated real estate taxes, insurance, electric, maintenance, cutting grass, snow removal, trap costs, theft, target breakage, etc. It all adds up. Clubs with all volunteer help can operate cheaper. You typically see this in the small Pa clubs, but they also have a very active volunteer membership and do other things to raise money for the club. But, if you have to pay for labor, operate in the high rent district, or don't require, push or give members an incentive to volunteer, prices will go up, period.

Blackthorne is right. Running a sanctioned tournament-grade facility costs money. Loch Raven has been my home club for only a couple years, but it's been a successful facility since 1956. That's pretty impressive.

I was asked to be on the board last December and I jumped at the chance to give back to the shooting sport I've become completely addicted to. In these last 8 months we have purchased, above normal operating costs: 2 skeet traps; 1 tournament trap; 1 battue trap for 5-stand; and needed repairs/renovations to the club house. We're talking tens of thousands of $$$ here in capital expense. And now we're looking at replacing the cracked and sunken 50 yr. old concrete on 3 of our 7 fields. You'd be able to buy a NICE luxury car.

But, yes, the OP's topic was range safety. We think we do a good job. Can we do better? You bet. And this topic will always be taken seriously by the club - as it should at ALL ranges and clubs. And I bet that when staff, members, and volunteers get grief from shooters who are doing stupid stuff, it's not from newbies; it's from the so-called "experienced" shooters. In my personal experience newbies are more receptive to correction and suggestions. Newbies generally don't try to shoot skeet with 3.5" magnum goose loads and then get upset when you tell them that's a no-no.

So I think that in looking at the larger picture we all have the responsibility and obligation to point out safety violations when we see them - or at least to alert staff and volunteers at our clubs what you've witnessed. The last thing any of us should want is for someone to get hurt.

 

[roger8918]

Blackthorne is right. Running a sanctioned tournament-grade facility costs money. Loch Raven has been my home club for only a couple years, but it's been a successful facility since 1956. That's pretty impressive.

I was asked to be on the board last December and I jumped at the chance to give back to the shooting sport I've become completely addicted to. In these last 8 months we have purchased, above normal operating costs: 2 skeet traps; 1 tournament trap; 1 battue trap for 5-stand; and needed repairs/renovations to the club house. We're talking tens of thousands of $$$ here in capital expense. And now we're looking at replacing the cracked and sunken 50 yr. old concrete on 3 of our 7 fields. You'd be able to buy a NICE luxury car.

But, yes, the OP's topic was range safety. We think we do a good job. Can we do better? You bet. And this topic will always be taken seriously by the club - as it should at ALL ranges and clubs. And I bet that when staff, members, and volunteers get grief from shooters who are doing stupid stuff, it's not from newbies; it's from the so-called "experienced" shooters. In my personal experience newbies are more receptive to correction and suggestions. Newbies generally don't try to shoot skeet with 3.5" magnum goose loads and then get upset when you tell them that's a no-no.

So I think that in looking at the larger picture we all have the responsibility and obligation to point out safety violations when we see them - or at least to alert staff and volunteers at our clubs what you've witnessed. The last thing any of us should want is for someone to get hurt.

I agree, sorry I got off topic.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

While 1 trip will cost you $540, does your youth team only shoot once or twice a year? Do other clubs just let you all shoot for free or something?

Even at $540 at one club, it will still cost a lot to pay for everyone else, somewhere else? lol

 

[roger8918]

PapiBarcelona, PM sent with answers to all your questions.

 

[JMintzer]

If you can help me get an audience I will would be very grateful.

Try writing an official e-mail or letter...

 

[STeveZ]

Do you really think $5/round is high.

That's what members pay, guests pay $7, which I do feel is high. Membership, last time I checked, was $200 per year, so if you shoot two rounds per week (as I do) you're still paying $7 per round.

 

[tdt91]

With lots more people buying and using guns this type of thing happens often. It don't matter what range, it happens. Just explain the SAFTEY rules to them in a manner that don't make you look like an ass and all should be OK. Never saw a NOOB get ignorant because the rules were explained. I've only seen that with older experienced shooters who know it all and have been shooting since they were 4 years old.

 

[Mr H]

Alan, I think it was Cisco who screamed at one shooter after you left a few weeks back.

I am not sure but I think the staff store boxes of pigeons in the trap houses of fields 3 and 4. One of the LR guys was in one of those houses, orange cone on top of the house, and the shooter walks up and closes the action on his gun. I forget what words were exchanged but the LR staffer was not happy. Vince knew about it.


I do not remember signing any safety form the first time I shot there.

Somehow, I'd missed this thread...

I did read and sign a sheet when I first shot there, but I can see how that could get overlooked for someone who's never been there before (or just signed it without having read it).

Those two incidents that Thursday were surprising, and a reminder that, at the very least, we are ALL obligated to range safety, no matter what.

And as for the city kids who had no clue about what they were up to? Well, I have no problem with them being out there, but there needs to be more than "well, we really can't do anything about it".

Someone on staff needs to take a minute (or two), call a cease-fire, and at least brief them on the basic safety rules. If something needs to be said a second time, then pull them off the line, and have them re-read and sign a new form, or SOMETHING. They can come back another day, and hopefully be wiser for it.

/soapbox

 

[circleshooter]

That's what members pay, guests pay $7, which I do feel is high. Membership, last time I checked, was $200 per year, so if you shoot two rounds per week (as I do) you're still paying $7 per round.

You are correct with your prices. Rounds are $7 for non-members and you don't shoot enough to make becoming a member financially worth it for you. My shooting buddies and I shoot enough to make back the $200 in about 3 months and then save money the rest of the year. If you shoot a lot membership is worth it.

But, participating in the shooting sports can be an expensive hobby. Hell..."can be?" - IS an expensive hobby. But things are relative. I assume that you spend about $24/week at LRSTC - $14 for the rounds and $10 for shells. Not a small sum for most people over the course of a year. But a single box of .45 ACP is more than that isn't it? Then add range fees.

A round of golf at a public course in Baltimore County ranges from $37 - $80 per round on weekends. People pay more to see 8 home Ravens games than I spend for a year's worth of shooting - and I generally shoot Saturday and Sunday nearly every week!

PG County charges a dollar less than we do. They have a nice facility (I shoot sporting clays there when I can't spend a day on the Eastern Shore) and I expect that they get at least some financial assistance from the PG County Department of Recreation. LRSTC is wholly self-sufficient. AGC charges less, but as RedCobra said, they've lost money on trap (which is their only clay game) and will most likely be forced to raise their price to break even.

I'm not ragging on you. Really. I'm not. I'm just saying that shooting is expensive and, believe me, LRSTC tries (as do most clubs, I'm sure) as hard as it can to keep the pricing as low as they can. But everyone that comes there expects it to be a nice facility in a well-kept, wooded setting (IMHO Loch Raven Watershed Park is a gem of Baltimore County that most people don't even realize is there). Oh...and you have to have multiple clay games with good equipment that is reliable - and meets the requirements for sanctioned tournaments. We do provide that. And that costs.

 

[BenL]

I personally think that a round of trap for less than a Starbucks Latte is a good deal.

The few times a year I shoot trap, I'm always surprised at how cheap it is. Most who do this seriously have spent $$$$$$$ on a shotgun, gear, shells (or a reloading setup), etc. If you consider that you're shooting a solid target they provide, launched by equipment they paid for and maintained, on property they paid for and pay taxes on, it's pretty surprising that it's only $7 a round. I just figured they try to keep it cheap to get new people coming in.

ETA: When I shoot at the range, I generally shoot ~100 rounds of centerfire pistol and another 100-150 rounds of some kind of centerfire rifle that can range from match .308 ammo to .50 Beowulf. If fact, now that I think about it, I'd bet I burn $100+ in ammo every time I go shooting (3-5 times a month.) I think I need a new hobby.