legality of home defense with firearm

[Pinecone]

It doesn't matter. The bottom line is that there is no longer a duty to retreat in your own home. Which I believe had been the case since about 1966.

Just being accurate.

As people are implying that there is a specific law that states that. And that is true in most states, but not in MD. In MD is based on rule of common law and previous court rulings.

And Castle Doctrine is not the case in all states. DC and Vermont have a duty to retreat, even in your home.

And in MD, guests or invitees may need to retreat inside someone else's home, due to mixed case law in MD.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#States_incorporating_castle_doctrine_principles

 

[Blaster229]

Just being accurate.



As people are implying that there is a specific law that states that. And that is true in most states, but not in MD. In MD is based on rule of common law and previous court rulings.



And Castle Doctrine is not the case in all states. DC and Vermont have a duty to retreat, even in your home.



And in MD, guests or invitees may need to retreat inside someone else's home, due to mixed case law in MD.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#States_incorporating_castle_doctrine_principles

Sure, by quoting Wikipedia.
So, what you're saying is that if me and a guest were both sitting on the couch with guns in our laps, I could shoot an invader coming through the door, but the guest will need to get up and run away to a room?

Honestly, don't muck up a thread with ridiculousness.
Some people here (I don't) may actually look up to your advice and that could get them, as a guest, killed.

 

[Pinecone]

Sure, by quoting Wikipedia.
So, what you're saying is that if me and a guest were both sitting on the couch with guns in our laps, I could shoot an invader coming through the door, but the guest will need to get up and run away to a room?

Honestly, don't muck up a thread with ridiculousness.
Some people here (I don't) may actually look up to your advice and that could get them, as a guest, killed.

Then show me the MD law that says that you do not need to retreat in your home.

And what I quoted said that your guest MAY have a duty to retreat. So it would be up to the police, then DA, then court to decide whether to charge them.

 

[Blaster229]

Then show me the MD law that says that you do not need to retreat in your home.



And what I quoted said that your guest MAY have a duty to retreat. So it would be up to the police, then DA, then court to decide whether to charge them.

Since you're fond of wikipedia...

 

[miles71]

I like US Lawshield but it's really up to personal preference. However, do yourself a favor and attend one of the seminars where you can ask a lawyer such things.

TD

 

[KevinK]

Justice Cardozo FTW

People v. Tomlins, 107 N.E. 496, 497-98 (N.Y. 1914)


"It is not now and never has been the law that a man assailed in his own dwelling is bound to retreat. If assailed there, he may stand his ground and resist the attack. He is under no duty to take to the fields and the highways, a fugitive from his own home .... Whither shall he flee, and how far, and when may he be permitted to return?'"

 

[PapiBarcelona]

No ones provided any urban dictionary links for this legal debate yet? LOL

 

[clandestine]

Not worth it.

 

[Skipjacks]

What about this thought exercise ...

I see a guy outside my house on the street firing a gun at other people.

So there is imminent mortal danger to others. Not the Molotov cocktail situation where he is preparing to throw it at your house. Actual people will be dead in seconds.

Can I shoot him?

Or does bringing my legal gun outside the house immediately make me in the wrong?

 

[hobiecat590]

Is a landowner in the PRoM required to run and hide from persons vandalizing, burglarizing, or about to burn sheds, garages, and boats?

What can we legally do to repel these folks in MD since we are not permitted to use lethal force except inside the home for the most part?

Is 12 gauge rock salt, rubber bullets, bean bags, tear gas, or pepper spray a legal non-lethal defense? Do you have to wait for them to shoot at you before you can return fire as your out buildings burn?

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

It's arguable...but a strong case can be made you were coming to the aid of others...Good Samaritan might apply. You can bet many would argue your duty was to call 9-1-1 while others would argue you had the right to defending the life of another...like running into your neighbor's burning house to save lives.

Such things have happened...like in church shootings...armed citizens have saved lives. Every case is different...what if the guy you shot was actually trying to do the same to help someone else?

 

[Pinecone]

Since you're fond of wikipedia...

Those are NOT enumerated in the law.

They are precedents set by cases.

Difference it, if the LAW says you do not have a duty to retreat, then you cannot be arrested and charged for not retreating.

If is supported by case law, then you can be arrested, charged, and then the points will be argued in court (or more likely, motions prior to the trial).

 

[Pinecone]

Is a landowner in the PRoM required to run and hide from persons vandalizing, burglarizing, or about to burn sheds, garages, and boats?

What can we legally do to repel these folks in MD since we are not permitted to use lethal force except inside the home for the most part?

Is 12 gauge rock salt, rubber bullets, bean bags, tear gas, or pepper spray a legal non-lethal defense? Do you have to wait for them to shoot at you before you can return fire as your out buildings burn?

If you are in fear for your life, you can respond.

But you cannot shoot someone because they are going to burn down your shed.

 

[Blaster229]

If you are in fear for your life, you can respond.



But you cannot shoot someone because they are going to burn down your shed.

Your house.

 

[newmuzzleloader]

My house is pretty far off either road. If they're coming 100 yards up the driveway, or across the field and 2 fences I don"t think they've accidentally wandered too close to my house. We've had people come up the driveway thinking we were the place they were looking for but not large unruly crowds. I made my mind up up early in this mess, if they're using lethal force against the house I'm responding in kind.

 

[BDurk]

Then you're demonstrating reasonable fear for your safety. That is a legal requirement.[/QUOTE

I think folks are arguing over 'reasonable apprehension of physical harm' and general fear. I was taught that if a 120 pound punk went to throw a punch at Mike Tyson (law school was a while ago) that Iron Mike doesn't need to be in 'fear', but rather have a 'reasonable apprehension of imminent physical harm'. He wouldn't have to take a punch from the punk before defending himself.

 

[Pinecone]

Your house.

IANAL, but if the house was occupied, probably.

But a house with no one in it? Then it would depend on the officers and DA.

 

[Blaster229]

Then you're demonstrating reasonable fear for your safety. That is a legal requirement.[/QUOTE

I think folks are arguing over 'reasonable apprehension of physical harm' and general fear. I was taught that if a 120 pound punk went to throw a punch at Mike Tyson (law school was a while ago) that Iron Mike doesn't need to be in 'fear', but rather have a 'reasonable apprehension of imminent physical harm'. He wouldn't have to take a punch from the punk before defending himself.

Not "physical harm". It's death or serious bodily injury. Think maim. A bruise can be physical harm.
Tyson doesn't need to take that punch. But he cannot beat the guy to death.
On the other hand, the skinny guy would most likely be justified in using deadly force against Tyson if he started whipping his ass.

 

[PowPow]

This whole duty to retreat (or not) discussion seems academic. If you are faced with a real threat in your house to your life or those with you, you won't think about what's in COMAR, law precedents, or wikipedia. Thinking is hindered when adrenaline surges.

What little thinking I'm able to do will be concentrated upon getting what I need to respond, determining where my loved ones are, and ascertaining where/what the threat is. I hope that I'm able to do that much.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

This whole duty to retreat (or not) discussion seems academic. If you are faced with a real threat in your house to your life or those with you, you won't think about what's in COMAR, law precedents, or wikipedia. Thinking is hindered when adrenaline surges.

What little thinking I'm able to do will be concentrated upon getting what I need to respond, determining where my loved ones are, and ascertaining where/what the threat is. I hope that I'm able to do that much.

Point taken but it would or could be to your benefit to have a plan thought out beforehand on how you would conduct a defense of your home would the worst happen. Where would your family likely to be...escape routes...hardened rooms to retreat to for a stand if necessary...where are the best places for defensive tools...location of wireless/cell phones to call 9-1-1...it all works into a plan.

When I was a LEO whenever I responded to a call for an alarm while on the way I would work out a plan where to leave my cruiser...how to approach...was backup on the way, etc. Have a plan...work the plan...remove as many variables as possible that could trip you up. Make it an unfair fight...as Bill Jordan said in his book..."There are no second place winners".

Use situational awareness...even if you do everything right there's no guarantee you'll prevail...it can still all go to hell on you. But have a plan.