Lee 4 die pistol dies

[Reloader]

I always seat and crimp in separate steps and consider it a must for cast bullets. I use the Lee factory crimp die for all my 9mil and 45...I never have any feed problems

 

[Winterborn]

I always seat and crimp in separate steps and consider it a must for cast bullets. I use the Lee factory crimp die for all my 9mil and 45...I never have any feed problems

This. I factory crimp all plated and fmj loads.

For cast it is a sizing issue, but be careful not to crimp too hard as the cast bullet will compress and be undersized.

A very light crimp us all that is necessary fir cast bullets, as loads are typically lighter for these.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 4

 

[j8064]

I favor myself by trying to learn something new every day .....

Again ... I would treat plated and jacketed the same as far as they both should be taper crimped as I implied. I do realize the differences as far as load/velocity limitations.

Cast bullets ... I prefer roll crimping ... especially .45 ACP.

Differences in loads was not part of the topic of this thread.

Well, we can agree to disagree.

Universally treating plated projectiles as if they were the same as FMJ is just wrong.

Since 45acp head spaces on the case mouth, your logic of how roll crimping the case mouth would be a better method to secure any type of projectile intended for a semi-auto firearm escapes me.

 

[trickg]

Crimp your pistol rounds in a seperate step instead of setting your seating die to crimp and seat at the same time. Especially if you are loading a cast bullet.

Handloader mag had a pretty good article a few issues back showing the damage done to bullets that are seated, and crimped in one step.

This. I think a lot of folks above misunderstood the question. You "can" seat and crimp with the third die, but I personally think it's worth doing it in the extra step.

FWIW, all of my dies are Lee 4-die sets for pistol - I have 4 sets - 45 ACP, 44 mag/spc, 40 and 38/357, and I got them that way due to how I felt about my first set, the .45 ACP.

 

[Soundman1]

A roll crimp needs not be so drastic as to prevent a cartridge from seating on the case mouth and will hold the position of the cast bullet better than a light taper crimp.

Taper crimping in a FCD chances reducing the diameter of the cast bullet, decreasing accuracy and increasing leading .... IMHO

 

[trickg]

A roll crimp needs not be so drastic as to prevent a cartridge from seating on the case mouth and will hold the position of the cast bullet better than a light taper crimp.

Taper crimping in a FCD chances reducing the diameter of the cast bullet, decreasing accuracy and increasing leading .... IMHO

That's an interesting observation, and something I hadn't thought of. on the other hand, I have yet to have any cycling issues out of my .45 ACP with myy reloads, and I can't really say that for some of the factory ammo I've bought. don't know if it's due to the FCD or not - honestly, I've never checked it out, but that's my theory from an anecdotal perspective.

 

[Traveler]

Several of my reloading manuals recommend a using only a slight taper crimp on 45 acp and 9mm, since they headspace on the case mouth. The recommend, AGAINST roll crimping those calibers.

I figure the guys that wrote those books know more than I do.

 

[j8064]

Several of my reloading manuals recommend a using only a slight taper crimp on 45 acp and 9mm, since they headspace on the case mouth. The recommend, AGAINST roll crimping those calibers.

I figure the guys that wrote those books know more than I do.

This ^^^

Regarding 45acp Lyman's 47th states "This cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. Adhere to the listed case maximum and trim to case lengths exactly. Do not roll crimp as doing so will alter headspacing..."

Regarding 9mm Luger the same book states, "This cartridge headspaces from the case mouth and therefore case trimming must be uniform and accurate...Additionally do not roll crimp bullets as this will prevent the case from properly headspacing on its mouth..."

A taper crimp is recommended for both cartridges. The 4th die in the Lee die sets is designed to deliver that taper crimp.

 

[trickg]

Several of my reloading manuals recommend a using only a slight taper crimp on 45 acp and 9mm, since they headspace on the case mouth. The recommend, AGAINST roll crimping those calibers.

I figure the guys that wrote those books know more than I do.

Unless I've missed something, it would be impossible to roll crimp either a 45 ACP or 9 mm due to the fact that roll crimps and taper crimps are completely different types of crimps, and therefore a set of dies for either 45 or 9 mm are going to be set up for the type of crimp they need before they ever make it onto your reloading bench.

Likewise, it would be impossible to taper crimp a revolver cartridge - those are specifically set up for roll crimps.

In short, the crimp type isn't something that needs to be worried about by the handloader.

 

[Traveler]

Unless I've missed something, it would be impossible to roll crimp either a 45 ACP or 9 mm due to the fact that roll crimps and taper crimps are completely different types of crimps, and therefore a set of dies for either 45 or 9 mm are going to be set up for the type of crimp they need before they ever make it onto your reloading bench.

Likewise, it would be impossible to taper crimp a revolver cartridge - those are specifically set up for roll crimps.

In short, the crimp type isn't something that needs to be worried about by the handloader.

This is why I brought the point up.

I favor myself by trying to learn something new every day .....

Again ... I would treat plated and jacketed the same as far as they both should be taper crimped as I implied. I do realize the differences as far as load/velocity limitations.

Cast bullets ... I prefer roll crimping ... especially .45 ACP.

Differences in loads was not part of the topic of this thread.

 

[trickg]

This is why I brought the point up.

Fair enough. I must have missed Soundman's post because I'm curious to know how one goes about roll crimping 45 ACP when to my knowledge 45 ACP dies are not set up to do so, even with cast lead bullets. You couldn't even do it with a set of 45 LC dies due to the fact that the diameters are different. (Well, you "could" I suppose, but it would be something that no manual anywhere would recommend.)

In any case, before I digress from the main point too far, I still prefer to crimp with the Lee FCD as a separate step, even though I could do my crimp with the seating die, and even if it does mean adding more time and pulls of the handle. the Lee FCD is regarded highly enough that I've read where some folks will use it for their reloads even if they are using dies from other makers up to that step.

 

[marlin.357]

IMHO the Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD) is great for jacketed bullets, but NOT for plated or cast bullets. Why? Cast or plated bullets are typically at least 0.001 larger than jacketed bullets and if you use the FCD it will squeeze them undersized and result in blow-by that will cause leading and reduce accuracy.

A standard taper crimp (or roll crimp for revolver rounds) die in the 4th position will work well.

 

[Song Dog]

If these helps, I'm loading 38 Special, the seating die was adjusted to provide a roll crimp on the bullet ring of 125 gr Hornady HXP's.

After additional bench time will load 9mm copper jackets bullets as if I'm under standing all the posts correctly will have to use the Lee factory crimp die to taper the case for crimp including COL as bullet/mouth of case head spaces on the chamber?

Also used Power Pistol for the 1st time and it meters perfectly

I've loaded rifles for many years but 1st attempt loading revolver/pistol ammo.

I'm sure I'll be back when loading 9mm ..................

 

[trickg]

If these helps, I'm loading 38 Special, the seating die was adjusted to provide a roll crimp on the bullet ring of 125 gr Hornady HXP's.

After additional bench time will load 9mm copper jackets bullets as if I'm under standing all the posts correctly will have to use the Lee factory crimp die to taper the case for crimp including COL as bullet/mouth of case head spaces on the chamber?

Also used Power Pistol for the 1st time and it meters perfectly

I've loaded rifles for many years but 1st attempt loading revolver/pistol ammo.

I'm sure I'll be back when loading 9mm ..................

You don't "have" to use the FCD to do the crimp in a separate step with either 38 or 9 mm - it "can" be done in the seating step with that die - it's perfectly capable of doing the crimp, but the die has to be dialed in to do it. From what I've read, many people claim to get better accuracy using the Lee FCD, and IMO it's produces a better round because of the fact that each step is separate.

Some have commented about the sizing factor of the FCD - that it will compress a bullet down a bit on taper crimped cases, and therefore produces leading. I've never seen that as a problem in any of my reloads. From my perspective, the quality of the cast bullet, i.e., the hardness of the alloy, has a bigger impact on leading than whether or not the FCD was used. Either way, I've never throught about it too much - I shoot, and then I clean my guns. Sometimes I have a little bit of leading, and sometimes there's almost none, and the only differences I can see is the bullets that I've used because they all go through the same crimp die.

 

[photoracer]

I have reloaded 9x23mm in both Major and Minor power factors using Ranier plated bullets for several years without having to use the Lee factory crimp die. I put a very slight crimp in the seating die and both my STI open gun and my Bul M-5 Limited gun have no problem. I use a relatively short OAL of 1.254 for FMJ and 1.215 for HP rounds (115-124g bullets). Because the Lee Pro1000 only has three holes in the plate I initially mounted the crimp die on a single stage Lee press, however after settling on a load I found the results were essentially the same doing both crimp methods so I dropped the 4th stage fairly soon. The only rounds I do use the crimp dies on is 41mag because I do reload lead bullets in those sometimes.

 

[Pinecone]

Rimmed rounds headspace on the rim. You can safely roll crimp them, and with Magnum rounds, you SHOULD roll crimp them.

MOST seating dies will roll crimp if they are set for that. No matter what cartridge they are for. But I do know that Hornady makes a 3 die set with a seating die that taper crimps.

It has three adjustments. Body height, seating depth, and crimp.

 

[trickg]

I have reloaded 9x23mm in both Major and Minor power factors using Ranier plated bullets for several years without having to use the Lee factory crimp die. I put a very slight crimp in the seating die and both my STI open gun and my Bul M-5 Limited gun have no problem. I use a relatively short OAL of 1.254 for FMJ and 1.215 for HP rounds (115-124g bullets). Because the Lee Pro1000 only has three holes in the plate I initially mounted the crimp die on a single stage Lee press, however after settling on a load I found the results were essentially the same doing both crimp methods so I dropped the 4th stage fairly soon. The only rounds I do use the crimp dies on is 41mag because I do reload lead bullets in those sometimes.

How do you like that Lee Pro1000? (I know - hijacking the thread, sorry about that.) The thing that has always kept me from looking into it a bit more thoroughly is that it does only have 3 stations, and I would want to have the fourth station for the FCD. (Ok - it's kind of in line with the discussion at hand.) Seems to me they'd do well if they created a 4 station version of it for that very reason, although if the FCD doesn't make that big of a difference then I can understand why they aren't doing much R&D for it.

Is it a press you'd buy again? It reviews SO much better than the Lee Load Master 5 station press that I've always considered it as an economical alternative to the Dillon.

 

[alucard0822]

I like the 4 die sets. The first 3 that size/deprime, bell, seat/crimp are pretty standard, and will produce ammo. The 4th die leaves a nicer crimp, and post sizes. For some loads, like those for use in hard kicking revolvers, the nice even tight crimp works far better than the simple crimp shoulder on the Lee seating die, that buckles cases a bit too easy. In post sizing, the die lightly sizes the case to spec, not quite as tight as the initial sizing die, it irons out any minor problems, and makes sure they feed perfectly.

 

[Reloader]

Hell, let's add another die to the mix. I use the Lee universal decapping die to pop all my primers out instead of the resizer, keeps the resizer clean then I tumble.

 

[alucard0822]

How do you like that Lee Pro1000? (I know - hijacking the thread, sorry about that.) The thing that has always kept me from looking into it a bit more thoroughly is that it does only have 3 stations, and I would want to have the fourth station for the FCD. (Ok - it's kind of in line with the discussion at hand.) Seems to me they'd do well if they created a 4 station version of it for that very reason, although if the FCD doesn't make that big of a difference then I can understand why they aren't doing much R&D for it.

Is it a press you'd buy again? It reviews SO much better than the Lee Load Master 5 station press that I've always considered it as an economical alternative to the Dillon.

I have a couple pro1000s. Lots of flex, not much leverage, takes some fiddling to work, then a steady rhythm, and you get loaded ammo. Cheap to change calibers, and when I bought mine for $100 each with a full shell plate carrier and turret caliber conversion about $30(many calibers share shellplates), it was good for the money. It can realistically do about 200-300 rounds an hour, keeping up with the primer tray, powder, and brass feed tray/tubes. There is some minor variance in OAL because of flex, and you need to post size on another press. Now at $175 for the press in one caliber, and $50 for a carrier and turret, it might not be such a good deal. I have a Rock chucker single stage that I do most rifle loads on, and a classic turret that I use to complete sized rifle brass, or load 100rd batches of handgun ammo, they are a lot slower, but produce better ammo, and don't really need anything to change calibers outside of swapping dies. I have used other presses, the Dillons are very nice, but I actually like the Hornady LnL better, smoother, easier to work, easier and cheaper to change calibers on, and has a better charging and priming setup, although it doesn't feed as fast or look as nice as the Dillon 650 I used. I have tried a loadmaster, and it is a step up from the pro1000, but still falls way short of the other 2 while not being that much cheaper than the Hornady, it is a lot smaller though, and the primer tray is far better than the pickup tubes the others use.