Learning Reloading: HOW To, What to, and What not to ...

[Squaregrouper]

SG,

I was going to say that too. I have 2 editions of the Lee manual, and one Hornady.
The Lyman looks like a good one too.

Now to go along with what danimal was asking, I had seen in your chart where there is IMR 4227 and H4227. look at their variation in numbers. In some notes I had regarding my first loads of .270 back in 2010 when my buddy was helping me do my first session ever. I saw the powder he wrote down on the log as IMR H 4350. I do have 4350 but it is IMR and no H4350. By the Lee Manual for 130 Gr, Jacketed bullets, I am showing IMR 4350 starts at 50.2gr and max is 55.0, while H4350 is 51.0 and 54.3.

What does your Lyman manual say for these 2 powders and 130 gr Jacketed bullets?

IMR 4350, H4350 and Accurate 4350 or IMR 4227 and H4227 will have similar burn rates, but not identical.
This thread is for beginning reloaders, so I don't want to go into it further. New reloaders should always stick with published data- start low and work up.
.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Great point SG.

And your pic is perfect for the next point. I've seen this mentioned a ton online that H110 and W296 are "the same powder" but why is the min,/max data different?!?! I'll stick with what the books say and treat them differently.

See the last statement in my post 59.

Also, after typing the above question about the 4350 powders, I read the section of the Lee manual called, How to read load data. Under Powder Type, it says, Hodg sells a 4350, IMR has a 4350, and Western sells Accurate 4350, Then it says they are similar but their tests indicate differences in VMD. Don't substitute one powder for the other and that each has their own data and that the Lee manual has each type notated in the manual.

I would say the same about the H110 and W296 that you are asking about. Even if you read or are told etc that H110 is the same as W296, only use the data for the specific powder as marked from the factory on your container.

On a side note, here is some interesting reading about IMR PB.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/anyone-know-the-closest-powder-to-imr-pb.112766/

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The rule of thumb is to start 10% below max. Interestingly enough, with the H110 loads pictured above, that would take you below the minimum load- thus the powder selection quandary.
Always approach max loads with caution.

Thanks SG,
I am definitely not in the more is better crowd when it comes to dangerous stuff.

The only thing I like to be in that crowd is, more beautiful women to look at, More CHILI, More BBQ, More STEAK, More MONEY.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Great point SG.

And your pic is perfect for the next point. I've seen this mentioned a ton online that H110 and W296 are "the same powder" but why is the min,/max data different?!?! I'll stick with what the books say and treat them differently.

Good way to think when you're starting out.
You will often see the phrase "10%" in reloading. 10% of 24gr is 2.4gr. In the .44 Magnum load pictured, the discrepancy between H110 and Win296 is 0.5gr, which is less than 3%. Put that thought in the back of your head and come back to it after you have loaded and shot a thousand rounds or so.

 

[trickg]

Somehow even before googling, I thought this might be an Alliant powder.
Seems like I had a sample of a good number of makers, but no Alliant.
Maybe I will go for some RMR or Montana Gold 125 gr bullets and add some 2400 to my stock.

Yep - for while there it was pretty scarce, but I've got enough that I could probably be persuaded to part with some of it for a good cause.

 

[Uncle Duke]

See the last statement in my post 59.



I would say the same about the H110 and W296 that you are asking about. Even if you read or are told etc that H110 is the same as W296, only use the data for the specific powder as marked from the factory on your container.

On a side note, here is some interesting reading about IMR PB.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/anyone-know-the-closest-powder-to-imr-pb.112766/

If anyone is unaware, manufacture of IMR PB powder was discontinued. I lose track of time, but I think something like 7 or 8 years ago.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Yep - for while there it was pretty scarce, but I've got enough that I could probably be persuaded to part with some of it for a good cause.

I like how you think, Mr G

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

If anyone is unaware, manufacture of IMR PB powder was discontinued. I lose track of time, but I think something like 7 or 8 years ago.

Yup Uncle Duke, in my reading, I was seeing this. Also seeing how it was pricey which was likely due to scarcity.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

This thread is for beginning reloaders, so I don't want to go into it further. New reloaders should always stick with published data- start low and work up.

Yup, and this is why I began this topic.

All my life since before I was 10 years old, I learned by trial and error, falling and picking myself back up, failing till I succeeded. BUT when it comes to AMMO and GUNS, there is no room for this.

As I got to know our member U.S. SFT.RET, we bonded over the rules of safety re: guns.
My lesson on this was learned sadly when I was 18. I lost a buddy I became friends with when mom moved us to a happier and safer home in an apartment in Cockeysville when I was 12. Little did I know that 6 years later, I would be burying one of my best friends and neighbors there who got shot by accident with a .22 that he and our other friend had in the apartment next door to me when they were both 17.

The reason I bring this up, is I am sure that most of us in here are not kids, but in some of us who are new to reloading, we are like toddlers in the processes and the nuances. I am glad that so many good resources are available to learn from here in 2024 such as forums, internet, books, and friends who have done it.

In my mind, it is best to go by the book, and have as much info as possible before making your first ready to fire rounds.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Yup, and this is why I began this topic.

All my life since before I was 10 years old, I learned by trial and error, falling and picking myself back up, failing till I succeeded. BUT when it comes to AMMO and GUNS, there is no room for this.

As I got to know our member U.S. SFT.RET, we bonded over the rules of safety re: guns.
My lesson on this was learned sadly when I was 18. I lost a buddy I became friends with when mom moved us to a happier and safer home in an apartment in Cockeysville when I was 12. Little did I know that 6 years later, I would be burying one of my best friends and neighbors there who got shot by accident with a .22 that he and our other friend had in the apartment next door to me when they were both 17.

The reason I bring this up, is I am sure that most of us in here are not kids, but in some of us who are new to reloading, we are like toddlers in the processes and the nuances. I am glad that so many good resources are available to learn from here in 2024 such as forums, internet, books, and friends who have done it.

In my mind, it is best to go by the book, and have as much info as possible before making your first ready to fire rounds.

Yours is the right attitude. It's a perspective that keeps a safe hobby safe, and keeps firearms, fingers, hands and faces intact.

 

[trickg]

Good way to think when you're starting out.
You will often see the phrase "10%" in reloading. 10% of 24gr is 2.4gr. In the .44 Magnum load pictured, the discrepancy between H110 and Win296 is 0.5gr, which is less than 3%. Put that thought in the back of your head and come back to it after you have loaded and shot a thousand rounds or so.

You also have to consider the source. I loaded some rounds for 41 Mag that were middle of the road in one manual, and when I cross-checked with another manual, I found that the load was right at the absolute max! They shot fine without issue - the gun I was shooting was a Ruger Blackhawk, so plenty strong to handle a potent loading - but that was one instance where I should have double-checked and cross-referenced with another manual before working up my load.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Also if I may suggest a good source of info I found online

https://data.templateroller.com/pdf_docs_html/1912/19126/1912697/primer-size-and-bullet-diameter-chart-graf-sons-the-reloading-authority_print_big.png

 

[Uncle Duke]

Also if I may suggest a good source of info I found online

https://data.templateroller.com/pdf_docs_html/1912/19126/1912697/primer-size-and-bullet-diameter-chart-graf-sons-the-reloading-authority_print_big.png

For new reloaders, let Chili's chart provide your first clue regarding the importance of reliable data sources.

As an example, if new folks study this chart closely, they'll quickly note that cartridge names are oftentimes misleading. The many and wildly varied reasons for cartridge names could fill a book. And there's oftentimes little in the way of consistency. Many names are completely counterintuitive.

No, your .223 Remington doesn't shoot a .223 diameter bullet. No, your 38 Special doesn't shoot a 38 caliber bullet. Yes, your 41 Magnum does indeed shoot a nominal 41 caliber bullet. But no, your 44 Magnum most assuredly doesn't shoot a nominal 44 caliber bullet. And you may....but you more likely will not....be using magnum primers, in your Magnum handgun rounds.

Clear as mud, right? Just a small example of the specific information you'll find in good reloading manuals. A good industry accepted data source is far and away the most important piece of equipment a reloader will ever have.