International Harvester Garand

[rwbow1969]

Well the title says it all. I came across this at my FFLs' shop today. It will be going up for sale and I'm trying to figure out what to offer the guy. The gun is on consignment and has to be sold ASAP. The bore and barrel are clean and crisp. There are markings on the stock, may not be original stock? The receiver has a grayish color to it which looks different from my other M1 Garand. Action is smooth also.

I know there are some hard core C&R folks here. What are your opinions on price and what else should I be concerned with. Yes, the International Harvester thing has me a little wound up.

Thanks
Rob

 

[stu929]

Do you know anything about the other parts? Tractor guns can fetch quite the premium especially if they have a correct barrel bolt and other parts. More info more info.......

As a bare minimum I would say 800-900 but you could always try to go lower. Depending on what else is IHC could be worth a lot more. I give that price based on a service grade or so mix master with an IHC receiver but there is still an awful lot that is unknown.

 

[-Z/28-]

They are the rarest of the four manufacturers. I think production was only around 350,000 rifles. Downside they are all post-war rifles from the 50's.

If it's all IH matching, it could be a $2000 gun. If it's just a mixed build on an IH receiver, then not much more than any other Garand.

 

[rwbow1969]

Just added some pics.

What parts and what markings would I be looking for on those parts.

 

[stu929]

Augusta Arsenal rebuild stamp on the stock.

Possibly reparked. Looks similar to an HRA I have but given how spotless the part is I'm curious.

 

[rwbow1969]

The receiver looks re-parked. The barrel end looks untouched though and shows some wear. The inside of the receiver is perfectly clean, I don't think it has been fired since the re-park.

 

[Mooseman]

That is very nice looking. Good luck getting it for the right price. The ASAP part will help you.

 

[sfchoffman]

Damn, I would like to have one !

 

[-Z/28-]

Just added some pics.

What parts and what markings would I be looking for on those parts.

There should be stampings on top of the bolt and on the side of the barrel when you pull the OP rod back. Another one on the gas plug below the muzzle. Those will tell us who made those parts.

 

[Alphabrew]

My dad LOVED International Harvester tractors. I'd kill to have an IH 1911 or Garand in his memory. Nice score!!!

 

[rwbow1969]

Top of bolt pic. Does the SA mean Springfield Armory? The other places I will have to go and look at it again.

 

[Neot]

Tractor guns bring a premium, even as mixmasters. If it's matching, prepare to break out the checkbook. I'd start with an offer of 800 and see if he bites. You can always raise the offer if they want a bit more.

 

[Neot]

Yes, Springfield Armory.

 

[-Z/28-]

Yes, Springfield Armory.

This. It's not an all IH gun then. This is good for your wallet. I agree with an $800 starting offer. Top dollar without overpaying I'd say maybe $1100.

 

[sfchoffman]

Thats the gun that takes those evil Clips, that I have been hearing about !

 

[tourrider]

Cool!

Out of high school I was a diesel mechanic for an IH dealer. The owner had a gun cabinet in his office and had 8 IHC Garands in it. He took them in as trade ins on tractors and implements. That was 35 years ago. I wonder how big his collection got to be.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[rwbow1969]

I appreciate everyones help with this. If I don't do the buy I will let you all know what shop and what price it's going to sell for. I'll have to check for the other markings -Z/28- mentioned. Maybe it's just the bolt? Maybe finding an IH bolt is like finding "Hens teeth"? I'll find out on the next inspection and report back.

 

[Alphabrew]

Thats the gun that takes those evil Clips, that I have been hearing about !

yup

 

[Threeband]

Here's a link to a reference for Garand parts.

http://battlerifle0.tripod.com/

The key to many parts is the Drawing number, the identifier for that parts mechanical drawing or "blueprint".

This IHC mixmaster has a Springfield bolt. If the Drawing number is D29287-19SA , then it's WWII vintage, "Used from 3,500,000 to end of WWII production." according to http://battlerifle0.tripod.com/id3.html . I'm confused, though because your photo looks like D28287-19SA, which isn't listed. There is a Bolt D28287-2SA . It makes me a little uncertain about the reference source. Please tell me that's D29287-19SA. Anyway, the A5 is the Heat Lot code for the batch of steel used to make that bolt.

(EDIT- I found a printed reference to D28287-19SA Heat Lot A5 as being made in January, 1945.)

This gives you an idea of how to check "correctness" on Garand parts. The Serial Number on the receiver (the only serial number on a Garand) gives you an idea of production date. Then you compare Drawing numbers and variations in the minor parts to see if they're consistent with that date or period of production.

The SA bolt tells you right off that it's a good, honest Mixmaster. Further inspection will tell you if it's mostly IHC or not. The AAG stock cartouche indicates a rebuild at Augusta Arsenal, Georgia . If you field strip it, you might find an electropenciled rebuild marking on the receiver leg with the date of the rebuild.

You'll also be able to check the Drawing number on the receiver leg, and ensure that it's consistent with late IHC production. You want to check that on any Garand of unknown (non DCM or CMP) provenence. You want to be sure the front and back halves of the receiver are from the same gun! Years ago, the government cut a lot of M1 receivers in half and sold them for scrap. Buyers welded them back together, sometimes welding a Winchester front to an SA back, and so on. The real check for a reweld is to inspect for subtle irregularities, especially in the op rod channel. They can be very subtle. Rewelds should be avoided. They are not for shooting.

If the barrel is original to the receiver, it should be marked LMR, dated between 53 and 55. You can see the markings when you pull the op rod back to expose the right side of the barrel near the chamber.

Nothing wrong with a Mixmaster, though. In a way, I think they're more authentic than a "corrected" rifle. It was routine practice for Garands to be disassembled in large batches for cleaning and maintainance, then reassembled with parts all mixed up. So they tended to become Mixmasters very quickly. Rebuilds like this one were often totally disassembled to the last screw and pin, then new rifles were assembled from the parts.
So American rifles really should be Mixmasters. And they make fine shooters.


Well, that's a start. I'm not a Collector, just an interested Shooter. You might take your questions to the CMP Forum. There are some experts who hang out there.

http://forums.thecmp.org/

If the bore, throat, and muzzle are good, if the lock-up is tight, and the sight isn't worn, I'd guess $800 to up to $1000 could be fair. I think the IHC adds a little value, even in a rebuilt Mixmaster.

 

[stu929]

If you get a chance open it up, check the op rod for the drawing number, pull the op rod back and check the info on the barrel this can mean a lot to the value of the rifle. Lastly if you can get the stock off the rifle look in the channel below the barrel see if there is a serial or partial serial stamped in that channel.

I don't have the best eye for identifying stocks just from the cut but that is a pretty sweet looking stock either way, nice grain and color.

That rifle should have an LMR barrel I believe though some IHC did have SA barrels depending on when they were made. A drawing number and barrel date would go a long way though.