"inheiriting" guns from NJ

[j0nthegreat]

i've tried to read other threads about inheriting guns and have found it all a bit confusing. my situation is that my grandfather died a few years ago and my aunt just found out that he was apparently some sort of master marksman in the army back in WWII. he had several guns stashed away that no one knew about.

as the only person in the family that has any interest in guns i'm hoping she'll choose to keep them in the family and give them to me instead of selling them. if she does, from what i understand (and i don't know exactly what kinds of guns or how many) all i have to do is drive up to NJ and get them. if there are any handguns i should (have to?) then register them with the MSP.

in one other thread they listed gifts from family members but they only list parents, grandparents, and siblings; not aunts. was this just a short list and any sort of relative is okay? since i'm not buying them i for sure don't have to go through an FFL? should i get a letter signed by her documenting the situation for the MSP?

so complicated

 

[paulstitz]

Since the transfer will take place in New Jersey you need to know the laws in New Jersey. I don't think MD laws matter.

You will probably need to go thru an FFL.

 

[Stevie Boy]

Since the transfer will take place in New Jersey you need to know the laws in New Jersey. I don't think MD laws matter.

You will probably need to go thru an FFL.

Hmm. He's still a MD resident/citizen (as I understand the situation) so he'll still have to eventually abide by MD law. NJ law may also play a role.

 

[j0nthegreat]

yes, i live in maryland. i have several guns already. given the opportunity, i just want to know how to do this correctly and have answers for my dad and aunt.

 

[paulstitz]

Hmm. He's still a MD resident/citizen (as I understand the situation) so he'll still have to eventually abide by MD law. NJ law may also play a role.

yeah but he wants to do the transfer in NJ:

all i have to do is drive up to NJ and get them.

He needs an FFL.

 

[Half-cocked]

yeah but he wants to do the transfer in NJ:

all i have to do is drive up to NJ and get them.

Not with handguns, he can't. For that he'll need a Maryland FFL.

 

[paulstitz]

Not with handguns, he can't. For that he'll need a Maryland FFL.

I don't think he can legally do a long gun out of state without a dealer.

 

[kalister1]

18 USC 922(a)(3)(A)


(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

18 USC 922(a)(5)(A)


(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

Intestate succession is what this looks like? It was not in the Will to give it to you, but it could be called an inheritance MAYBE?. You should seek professional advice with this being NJ & MD (Not the 2 most friendly gun States)

 

[Half-cocked]

Long story short, John... unless you have a C&R license (I assume you don't, or you would have mentioned it):

1. Non-regulated long guns, you may have transferred to you, in New Jersey, by an FFL.

2. Handguns, and regulated long guns, you will have to have shipped to a Maryland FFL, who may then release them to you after filling out the required Maryland and federal paperwork, and a minimum 7-day waiting period... PROVIDED any handguns made after 1985 are on Maryland's "Approved Handgun Roster".

All of this will cost $$$, per transfer, plus shipping costs.

You can thank the fine senators and representatives who passed the 1968 Gun Control Act, the Brady Act, and Maryland's redundantly unnecesary gun control laws, for these ridiculous hoops that you must jump through. But, don't you feel safer? Because everyone knows, criminals no longer can get guns.

(Also - this qualifies neither as a bequest or intestate succession, so you're S.O.L. there.)

 

[GBMaryland]

Ok,

1) You can not drive to NJ and pick the guns up. Period.

That's a felony in NJ and illegal transfer on the Federal side.

2) The executor of the estate can drive them down to Maryland, bring them to an FFL, and you can transfer them to you. (That's your aunt I assume.)

3) Your aunt, as the executor, can take them to a gun store in NJ, and send them to an FFL on MD.

However, you should check on this... NJ may have changed the law since I left, but it used to be that you could inherit weapons from a deceased family member and there was no stipulation as to timeframe to how quickly you needed to get an FID. She could be seriously screwed if she omits dealing with any registration requirements.

NJ had mandatory registration...

4) I don't think the MSP can help you with this... At least not the way you want...

If I remember correctly, she may need the letter indicating that she had power of attorney.

 

[j0nthegreat]

Long story short, John... unless you have a C&R license (I assume you don't, or you would have mentioned it):

1. Non-regulated long guns, you may have transferred to you, in New Jersey, by an FFL.

2. Handguns, and regulated long guns, you will have to have shipped to a Maryland FFL, who may then release them to you after filling out the required Maryland and federal paperwork, and a minimum 7-day waiting period... PROVIDED any handguns made after 1985 are on Maryland's "Approved Handgun Roster".

i can understand the second point. but for un-regulated long guns, since it's a gift from a family member. i can't find the thread now, and a quick text search of the federal laws on atf.gov didn't really say anything about gifts or inheritance so i don't know where i got that idea

 

[j0nthegreat]

is there a way to do all of this at once as part of an estate sale?

also, i applied for collector status several months ago but haven't gotten any notification of it going through yet

 

[Half-cocked]

is there a way to do all of this at once as part of an estate sale?

also, i applied for collector status several months ago but haven't gotten any notification of it going through yet

Maryland Collector Status is good to have, but has no bearing on interstate firearms transfers... you should apply for a federal C&R license, if you want to acquire Curio & Relic firearms in interstate transactions. That may help with some of the firearms you'll be acquiring. And yes, there is a provision in Maryland's handgun laws that provides for estate acquisitions, but would it apply here, since several years have already passed? I can't say....

If I were you, I'd speak to a knowledgable FFL in Maryland, and see what they can do for you.

 

[miben]

The safest way would be a dealer to dealer transfer. If you could determine that they are over 50 yrs old or listed as C&Rs you could apply for a license now and have it in about 30 days. WWII guns are C&R. Then they could be shipped directly to you. The MD collector status only allows you to buy more than 1 regulated gun per month. The federal C&R ffl lets you receive them directly from a dealer or individual through a common carrier or USPS if a rifle.

In NJ, they require firearms ID to transport a gun even if for a valid reason. Your aunt would have to feel comfortable shipping them as she probably does not have the firearms ID. It could be complicated if she is elderly, as the shipper may ask questions that my fluster her.

 

[MDFF2008]

Because you are dealing with one of the most anti-gun states in America; I would be extra careful.

You CANNOT just drive up to NJ and take the guns. That would be a felony. You can buy non-regulated guns in other states, but NJ has so many complicated laws I wouldn't even risk it.

NJ is also extremely hostile towards gun owners; and as an FID state, there is a danger your aunt could be brought up on charges if she goes to an FFL.

IF she wants to go to an FFL in NJ and ship them to you; PLEASE pay the money and talk to a lawyer to make sure she wont' get in trouble if she inherited them and never got an FID card.

I would have your aunt, as the executor of the will, prepare them according to FOPA (unloaded, in the trunk, in containers) drive them to you. She should take the SHORTEST route to the PA border, and drive the rest of the way to MD through PA and DE. Once you get into PA; FOPA will fully protect you as it is an intermediate state between your origin and destination. Plus PA is more friendly to law abiding gun owners.

You may conduct the transfer at any FFL in the state of Maryland. Your aunt should bring proof of his death to show it's an inheritance (which is an exception to the one gun a month rule I believe).

Treat her to dinner and a hotel; and enjoy your new guns

 

[j0nthegreat]

thanks for the help everyone!

 

[platoonDaddy]

If it was me, I would drive up to NJ, take Aunt out to dinner and leave with the firearms the following day.

 

[MDFF2008]

If it was me, I would drive up to NJ, take Aunt out to dinner and leave with the firearms the following day.

Except that would be a crime and we don't condone criminal activity here.

 

[esqappellate]

Long story short, John... unless you have a C&R license (I assume you don't, or you would have mentioned it):

1. Non-regulated long guns, you may have transferred to you, in New Jersey, by an FFL.

2. Handguns, and regulated long guns, you will have to have shipped to a Maryland FFL, who may then release them to you after filling out the required Maryland and federal paperwork, and a minimum 7-day waiting period... PROVIDED any handguns made after 1985 are on Maryland's "Approved Handgun Roster".

All of this will cost $$$, per transfer, plus shipping costs.

You can thank the fine senators and representatives who passed the 1968 Gun Control Act, the Brady Act, and Maryland's redundantly unnecesary gun control laws, for these ridiculous hoops that you must jump through. But, don't you feel safer? Because everyone knows, criminals no longer can get guns.

(Also - this qualifies neither as a bequest or intestate succession, so you're S.O.L. there.)

This sounds right. Unless the transfer was under the Will (bequest) or by order of a probate court (intestate), it doesn't qualify as such under MD or Federal law. If it were me (not giving legal advice here), I would treat this as a private transfer from a non-family member under MD and federal law. An aunt doesn't qualify as a family member. See, e.g., Criminal Law Art. 5-136 (covering gifts by "purchaser's spouse, parent, grandparent, grandchild, sibling, or child"). That means shipping the handguns from a NJ FFL to a MD FFL. If it is a handgun, that requires the same forms as if you had walked into a gun store and bought one -- same forms, same wait. The advice on the long guns is correct too, as long as it is not a REGULATED long gun, e.g., assault weapon, which is treated like a handgun. The NJ FFL can transfer regular long guns to you just like he could if you had walked into his store and purchased it. Keep your paper work! Good luck.

EDIT Griim1 has some excellent points. The trouble with using FOPA though is that she has to be legal in NJ to transport to MD and that may require her to comply with NJ law on registration and the possession law. But, I agree with Grim1's main point, retain NJ counsel on this and be very careful to protect your aunt.

 

[MDFF2008]

Can an NJ FFL sell a long gun to someone out of state? Normally I know allowed, but with NJ and all their weird laws and FIDs, I wouldn't risk it.

I think the best bet might be to have your aunt hold onto them a little longer while you apply for designated collector status. You'll need that to acquire the whole collection of handguns at once unless it was in the well or probate (like ESQ said).