Impressive MSI meeting

[pilot25]

There are those who enjoy a fight and in the absence of such will seek out conflict. I'm not one of them.

I wish you success.

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[DontTreadOnMe]

Maryland 2A supporters are not seeking a conflict in the absence of a fight. You’ve admitted that Maryland gun grabbers are actively seeking to infringe on existing 2A rights. Those fighting to keep what we have and regain what we’ve lost are not doing so just to seek conflict.

 

[Gambler]

Thanks for the kind words F5guy!

 

[welder516]

There are those who enjoy a fight and in the absence of such will seek out conflict. I'm not one of them.

I wish you success.

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Fighting can take on many forms such as punching someone in the face or kicking them in the balls .
If a person is battling an illness they are in for a fight which is a very positive thing it is often the difference between living or dying .

I gladly fight for my rights be it 2A or any other Constitutional issue that may come up .
I will do that with a smile on my face so i can try and better the future for others .
You may see that as foolish or futile but i see it as a positive as well , i am not lying down and letting the Frosh's of this world tell me what is good for me .

I am happy to do the job and be with my brothers and sisters .

 

[pilot25]

Fighting can take on many forms such as punching someone in the face or kicking them in the balls .
If a person is battling an illness they are in for a fight which is a very positive thing it is often the difference between living or dying .

I gladly fight for my rights be it 2A or any other Constitutional issue that may come up .
I will do that with a smile on my face so i can try and better the future for others .
You may see that as foolish or futile but i see it as a positive as well , i am not lying down and letting the Frosh's of this world tell me what is good for me .

I am happy to do the job and be with my brothers and sisters .

I applaud your efforts but judicially the fight for 2A in MD is over. I'm sorry you cannot see that. The path to success, with the current Supreme Court and 4th circuit makeup, is legislatively. To continue to throw money toward lawsuits is futile and frankly wasteful. The High Court has dictated as such.

Countless people went to the Baltimore council and were upset at the proposed law of 1 year in jail for illegal gun possession. The council backed down. These citizens were not NRA members nor care about "assault weapons" bans or anything of the like. It'll take a brave constitutional conservative politician to go into these neighborhoods on a regular basis and try to turn the constituency. An uphill battle that will also take many years. However, the difference in this approach vs. a judicial fight is the latter is finite and been defined. These Baltimore residents appear to want the same freedoms you do and are obviously exercising them illegally. Education and compassion to this constituency will win the day. Maybe.

To continue to spin your wheels without forward motion is a waste of fuel. So you can pound your chest and yell at the top of your lungs but the legal system isn't listening. Which brings me back to my original question of what MSI thought the next steps were. If it is to continue to fight the legal system then I have my answer and know what direction I will take myself.

 

[swinokur]

The 2A in MD is more than just carry rights. I can't see why you think it's just carry.

Feel fee to sit on the bench. The rest of us will keep fighting to prevent further infringements on our rights.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

 

[pilot25]

Stop whining.

It’s undignified and beneath our 2A tribe.

It’s not like the rest of us can’t read or process the political climate we are in. Last time I checked you are not a seer.

Read up on the Shackleton Expedition. They triumphed because they worked at the immediate challenges rather than just stare at the empty horizon.

I know you are intelligent and well read so I'll quote, "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious."

I find it truly fascinating that you tell me to read Shackleton yet slap me down as a whiner. Do you not see how Earnest was able to save himself and his crew? Earnest had to keep changing his goal from fame to ultimately survival. I agree with you his expedition is not unlike the current fight but he changed his tact to save himself and his crew from death. Are leaders of 2A organizations taking your advise you want me to follow? I hope so, because to continue to fight in the courtrooms of the High Courts is not in the spirit of Earnest Shackleton or his crew.

I ultimately have the same question and is what I asked. Does MSI follow in Earnest's steps and leadership or will they continue to try to "cross the Antarctic" all knowing death awaits at the end? Its really all I was asking when everyone decided to pile on in anger. I know why though, as everyone feels the same as I do. The slow burning pessimism Earnest fought hard to keep from his crew. I'm pretty sure he succeeded by not calling his crew a bunch of whiners.

You are one to take charge and move judiciously to your goal. I admire that. I support those, like MSI, who do the same. However, I don't generally throw my support to someone or something that continues down the same path and expect it to lead to a different destination.

 

[pilot25]

The 2A in MD is more than just carry rights. I can't see why you think it's just carry.

Feel fee to sit on the bench. The rest of us will keep fighting to prevent further infringements on our rights.

I do not. I never even mentioned carry in any of my posts so I don't follow your line of thought.

I follow everything MSI does in addition to every other MD 2A organization. However for those who don't follow MSI and happen upon the organization in a passing news feed I can easily see why they would think its just carry.

Great, keep fighting but to fight the battle, in the same manner, and now know that same tact will not generate a different outcome is beyond my comprehension.

 

[welder516]

I applaud your efforts but judicially the fight for 2A in MD is over. I'm sorry you cannot see that. The path to success, with the current Supreme Court and 4th circuit makeup, is legislatively. To continue to throw money toward lawsuits is futile and frankly wasteful. The High Court has dictated as such.

Countless people went to the Baltimore council and were upset at the proposed law of 1 year in jail for illegal gun possession. The council backed down. These citizens were not NRA members nor care about "assault weapons" bans or anything of the like. It'll take a brave constitutional conservative politician to go into these neighborhoods on a regular basis and try to turn the constituency. An uphill battle that will also take many years. However, the difference in this approach vs. a judicial fight is the latter is finite and been defined. These Baltimore residents appear to want the same freedoms you do and are obviously exercising them illegally. Education and compassion to this constituency will win the day. Maybe.

To continue to spin your wheels without forward motion is a waste of fuel. So you can pound your chest and yell at the top of your lungs but the legal system isn't listening. Which brings me back to my original question of what MSI thought the next steps were. If it is to continue to fight the legal system then I have my answer and know what direction I will take myself.

I could never waste my time standing with the members here that I stand with , they give me more and it is brotherhood to stand up and be heard .

The fact remains I am not wasting "your time" & you are welcome to believe in whatever you want and to spend your time in the fashion you see fit .

In every forum we have the "Debbie Downers" apparently you are their head cheerleader (not that there is anything wrong with that)

All the best partner ,
Dave

 

[swinokur]

Following doesn’t win battles but we see where you have cast your lot.

Do as you see fit. The rest of us will never give up.


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[welder516]

Following doesn’t win battles but we see where you have cast your lot.

Do as you see fit. The rest of us will never give up.


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[Stoveman]

I applaud your efforts but judicially the fight for 2A in MD is over. I'm sorry you cannot see that. The path to success, with the current Supreme Court and 4th circuit makeup, is legislatively. To continue to throw money toward lawsuits is futile and frankly wasteful. The High Court has dictated as such.

Countless people went to the Baltimore council and were upset at the proposed law of 1 year in jail for illegal gun possession. The council backed down. These citizens were not NRA members nor care about "assault weapons" bans or anything of the like. It'll take a brave constitutional conservative politician to go into these neighborhoods on a regular basis and try to turn the constituency. An uphill battle that will also take many years. However, the difference in this approach vs. a judicial fight is the latter is finite and been defined. These Baltimore residents appear to want the same freedoms you do and are obviously exercising them illegally. Education and compassion to this constituency will win the day. Maybe.

To continue to spin your wheels without forward motion is a waste of fuel. So you can pound your chest and yell at the top of your lungs but the legal system isn't listening. Which brings me back to my original question of what MSI thought the next steps were. If it is to continue to fight the legal system then I have my answer and know what direction I will take myself.

I do not. I never even mentioned carry in any of my posts so I don't follow your line of thought.

I follow everything MSI does. However for those who don't and happen upon the organization in a passing news feed I can easily see why they would think its just carry.

I guess you must have missed the part where many members of MSI are in Annapolis during the session testifying and speaking with their Delegates and Senators.

Please try to pay better attention.

 

[buellsfurn]

He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious

Im wondering what has changed your attitude re: 2A .I remember when you wanted to know why their wasn't any Grass root meetings/classes in you area and remember you volunteering at Chantilly i do believe.Why push the negativity hear ? Just take your basketball and go home.

 

[swinokur]

You keep saying court battles are over. By saying the only way forward is in the legislature, you are referring to carry are you not?


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[welder516]

Reminds me of a saying my Dad used when things were not great or you had a tough road ahead ....................................."the only way to eat an Elephant is one bite at a time" I learned to love elephant .

 

[DC-W]

Thanks for the compliments, OP. Truly appreciated!

What do you think we could do to make it even better?

 

[Schipperke]

I applaud your efforts but judicially the fight for 2A in MD is over. I'm sorry you cannot see that. The path to success, with the current Supreme Court and 4th circuit makeup, is legislatively. To continue to throw money toward lawsuits is futile and frankly wasteful. The High Court has dictated as such.

Countless people went to the Baltimore council and were upset at the proposed law of 1 year in jail for illegal gun possession. The council backed down. These citizens were not NRA members nor care about "assault weapons" bans or anything of the like. It'll take a brave constitutional conservative politician to go into these neighborhoods on a regular basis and try to turn the constituency. An uphill battle that will also take many years. However, the difference in this approach vs. a judicial fight is the latter is finite and been defined. These Baltimore residents appear to want the same freedoms you do and are obviously exercising them illegally. Education and compassion to this constituency will win the day. Maybe.

To continue to spin your wheels without forward motion is a waste of fuel. So you can pound your chest and yell at the top of your lungs but the legal system isn't listening. Which brings me back to my original question of what MSI thought the next steps were. If it is to continue to fight the legal system then I have my answer and know what direction I will take myself.

I guess you must have missed the part where many members of MSI are in Annapolis during the session testifying and speaking with their Delegates and Senators.

Please try to pay better attention.

Legal battles are the only avenue. Legislature is a one trick pony, and only through their divine incompetence at drafting some of these Bills that couldn't operate under Federal laws (ie NICs check for black powder and faux paws on other Bills) , they'd certainly pass if federal law yielded to their wishes. Any court case has multiple times more chance than convincing Maryland culture and legislature to give up their grip on gun control. Hogan and Trump are both 100 year floods we were lucky to get. Don't count on anything less than a progressive Maryland and USA in the future. You can't fight legislatively without the votes, and we were blessed the leftists stayed home last couple elections. That has ceased.. See Virginia election 2017..

 

[pilot25]

You keep saying court battles are over. By saying the only way forward is in the legislature, you are referring to carry are you not?


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No, not at all. I don't know if I'm am talking over everyone or just not speaking clearly. Probably the latter.

So we all know the results of the various cases across the country. Here with Kolbe, Cali with Peruta, DC with Wrenn etc.. We have various courts in conflict with each other. No they aren't all the exact same case but they all deal with 2A. I'm no legal scholar but have been keeping abreast of 2A like everyone else here. With several lower courts in complete disagreement with each other regarding similar laws that are in conflict with what the Supreme Court has already adjudicated in the Heller case it generally means that is ripe for the Supreme Court to take a case. They declined not once but twice. Peruta and now Kolbe. So everyone can continue to emotionally pile on me like a conservative at a progressive convention or look at the facts logically. How in the heck does everyone think continuing to fight 2A legal cases through the court system for years is going to come to a different outcome? I guess it is possible that Roberts or Alito will change their mind and agree to take a 2A case but this last rebuke is very very telling. "We don't want your 2A cases. Thank you." Why continue to throw money at court cases if they are unwinnable? Why not try and to fight on another front? I don't know but I do believe its exploration is required. In this instance I am following the leader but I'm also just questioning its direction. Somehow that has garnered complete vitriol from the peanut gallery. So again I really respect MSI, Rack and his band of warriors who do what I could never do. Getting in the face of anti-2A people on the curbs of DC. I think its great but I don't have that kind of gumption to draw attention to myself with the police by marching with an AR on my chest (in VA) and hope I don't get arrested. Perfectly legal but definitely risky. Completely admirable.

In my opinion, for the worthlessness of it, if we want to win here in MD or any other organization in any other state, within the 4th and 9th circuits, is going to have to be at the voting booth. Thereby the only path I see forward is one or two brave politicians attempting the impossible. Changing MD from anti-2A to pro-2A. That doesn't mean changing it from Blue to Red though with the current state of political polarization I can see why people would think that. If there is one politician with the gumption to walk into Baltimore on a regular basis he/she can win the hearts and minds of the people there. Its the only path I see to winning the 2A war. The Supreme Court has changed the rules of engagement.

Greg Abbott comes to mind when speaking of this type of attitude change. He won the bluest of areas of Texas because he went there and talked to the people there. He changed their minds.

 

[pilot25]

Legal battles are the only avenue. Legislature is a one trick pony, and only through their divine incompetence at drafting some of these Bills that couldn't operate under Federal laws (ie NICs check for black powder and faux paws on other Bills) , they'd certainly pass if federal law yielded to their wishes. Any court case has multiple times more chance than convincing Maryland culture and legislature to give up their grip on gun control. Hogan and Trump are both 100 year floods we were lucky to get. Don't count on anything less than a progressive Maryland and USA in the future. You can't fight legislatively without the votes, and we were blessed the leftists stayed home last couple elections. That has ceased.. See Virginia election 2017..

You are piling on my pessimism but I appreciate the well thought out response vs. the "you're an a-hole go home." Is MDS just one big echo chamber? "Think like us or log out!"

I see the exact opposite though and the small light I see was the attempt at the Baltimore legislature to install a no appeal 1 year jail sentence for illegal possession. The people that showed up to protest were no MDS members or the like. I think they are breaking the law because they know they need to defend themselves in the crappiest areas of the state. They are angered that they may face jail time for possession. That is a small stones throw away from what we want packaged in a different form.

It can be done. It would take a small dedicated army of believers and a charismatic politician willing to go into the lions den and show they care. Yes, I can see the eyes rolling through my screen but judicially we have no path. Clearly no one agrees with me and MSI and others will continue to fight in court. You can talk to the current legislators until you are blue in the face. They aren't listening either. I hope you prove me wrong. I will be moving out of MD in 9 years and I don't think you will be able to serve me humble pie before then.

 

[pilot25]

I guess you must have missed the part where many members of MSI are in Annapolis during the session testifying and speaking with their Delegates and Senators.

Please try to pay better attention.

Are they still playing solitaire while you speak?